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was Kruge the good guy?

Kruge explicitly says he wants Genesis as "the secret of ultimate power!" Later he says "I've come a long way for the power of Genesis." It's obvious that he wants to claim the weapon for his own use. This is also a guy who blew up his own lover because she saw the blueprints, and who disintegrated his own gunner for making a mistake. It's incredibly disingenuous to suggest he was only motivated by self-defense. His invocations of "galactic peace" are obviously meant to be interpreted as propaganda and hypocrisy.

I mean, let's face it, as fun as Lloyd's performance was, Kruge was one of the most exaggeratedly, blatantly Evil characters in the Trek franchise. He killed people on a whim, tortured people, murdered Kirk's son to make a point, and said it was exhilarating to be on a dying planet. He stopped just short of literally twirling his mustache. The movie went to great lengths to demonstrate that this was a villain so heinous and irredeemable that even James T. Kirk, the man who chose to seek peace with the Horta and the Gorn despite the violence they inflicted, was driven to the point of saying "I have had enough of you" and kicking him into a chasm (though he did at least offer his hand first). Kruge is no more the good guy than Hans Gruber was.
Lloyd was desperately trying to top Ricardo Montalban, his performance was totally ridiculous and hard to take seriously. I think the producers had that emphasis in mind because Khan was so good in the previous film. The character had such a lack of logic in his own realm even when the obvious was presented to him, Kruge still went on being ignorant of the situation. I had enough of that character before Kirk did the right thing and kick him in the face and putting that idiot of his misery. One of the worst Star Trek villain I'd ever seen.
 
About that bit where Kruge executes his gunner: I highly doubt that it would have been possible to target the Grissom's engines without destroying the ship outright. Especially with weapons as powerful as Klingon torpedoes. The Oberth class looks quite fragile...

Although it would appear that the gunner targeted the Grissom's secondary hull (that's where the torpedoes hit). He probably assumed that was the engine.
 
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Lloyd was desperately trying to top Ricardo Montalban, his performance was totally ridiculous and hard to take seriously.

I disagree entirely. For Lloyd it was practically restrained. Nimoy, if I recall correctly, at the time felt TWOK and Khan were "too popcorny." As in too "movie villain." Kruge was theatrical, as per Star Trek, but his motivation was easily understood and wasn't firing off literary quotes with buldging eyes and throwing his people around. Lloyd has the ability to go far over the top and Kruge didn't reach those kinds of heights. I felt he was interesting to watch and effortlessly easy to take speciously. I vastly prefer his Kruge to the WTF Shakespeare spouting villain we'd get a few films later.

One of the worst Star Trek villain I'd ever seen.

Shinzon, Ru'afo and Dr. Soran would like a word in... :rommie:
 
God, the TNG films really did have a talent for taking great actors and putting them in thankless roles. :|
 
About the other villains: sometimes when I'm sad I rewatch this video and it makes me happy

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When you put it that way it sounds like it is very stupid.

Soran and Kruge and Klaa especially.
 
Kruge's introduction with Valkris is interesting because I'd say this is precisely the moment Star Trek starts shifting the Klingons into "noble (by their own definition at least) warrior race." Kruge isn't angry with Valkris and doesn't take any enjoyment from ordering her death, and she accepts her fate stoically. They exchange fond, respectful farewells to each other and bring up "love" and "honor." They're both doing their duty rather than relishing treachery and cruelty. There's a code of ethics at play here whereas the Klingons of TOS were essentially a race of Skeletors who might happily proclaim "evil is great and good is dumb bwahaha."
"Love" and "Honor". Here's an idea. Why not just beam Valkris off the ship? Kruge isn't exactly keeping the Genesis experiment a secret from those who work for him. Heck, he even shows this Genesis video to his fellow crewmembers. When Maltz is impressed with the Genesis Device as an actual planet maker instead of a weapon, Kruge doesn't kill him. He sarcastically mocks him and dismisses him. If there was ever an individual who would likely turn on me, I think the person who doesn't see eye to eye with me is more deserving of being killed than my lover who will literally give her life for me for no reason at all.

Would it not have been better if Valkris told Kruge that some of the cargo ship's crew saw the video and Kruge saw THAT as a threat? You can have her be the instigator of their deaths, beamed off and you wouldn't need to change anything. When asked by the ship's Captain when he'll get paid off, keep the "Soon Captain. Quite soon." and than boom. She's beamed out. You could even associate her being beamed back aboard as to why Kruge would leave the bridge immediately after that moment.

I hate that I'm resorting to this again, but like with David, Kruge kills Valkris for no reason. He's 100% uncut psychotic. If he's running off of "Honor" and "love", it's all delusional.
 
She called him "love." He only said she would be remembered with honor. He was upset but not so attached he wanted to bring her along.

he was more upset when his dog died.
 
Good lord. NO, Kruge was not the good guy. :rolleyes:

He committed espionage to steal Genesis, not because he thought it was wrong or immoral, but to use it as a weapon himself. He casually killed or tortured anyone who got in his way. He blew up an entire starship full of people, the USS Grissom. He instructed one of his men to "Kill one of the prisoners. I don't care which." He refused to beam an injured Spock aboard his ship just to spite Kirk. He thought an entire planet self destructing under his feet was "exhilarating." And it was heavily implied that he was going rogue from his own government to do all of this.

What is that if not a bad guy?
Apparently Christopher Lloyd was chosen because he was "more intimidating". That's gotta be a typo.
Lloyd was a great bad guy as Butch Cavendish in The Legend of the Lone Ranger in 1981, just a few years before TSFS. The movie's not great, but he is. I can totally see why they cast him.
Is it even humanly possible to be MORE intimidating than EJO? I mean, we've all seen nuBSG... :evil:
Oddly enough, not that many people had seen nuBSG in the early 1980s. ;)
 
He committed espionage to steal Genesis, not because he thought it was wrong or immoral, but to use it as a weapon himself. He casually killed or tortured anyone who got in his way. He blew up an entire starship full of people, the USS Grissom. He instructed one of his men to "Kill one of the prisoners. I don't care which." He refused to beam an injured Spock aboard his ship just to spite Kirk. He thought an entire planet self destructing under his feet was "exhilarating." And it was heavily implied that he was going rogue from his own government to do all of this.

What is that if not a bad guy?
Exactly.

He pursued power for power's sake in the name of his Empire. All he was interested in.
 
I wonder if the events of Star Trek III triggered serious security concerns about Starfleet? Kirk steals a major asset from Starfleet, then we get to Genesis and find out that there are no security measures taken at a world that was causing serious concerns among the Federation council. :lol:
 
That's not helping this thread's case that Kruge is a good guy.

I never said that was my intention. I was just pointing out that at no time to Kruge say he loved Valkris. He merely got misty over having to kill her. I get misty when someone surprises me with cupcakes at the office.

Kruge is in no way a good guy.
 
I never said that was my intention. I was just pointing out that at no time to Kruge say he loved Valkris. He merely got misty over having to kill her. I get misty when someone surprises me with cupcakes at the office.
I'm sure Kruge's officers were not his lovers either, but he was still happy to share the Genesis information with him.

Killing Valkris was just... dumb. For all intents and purposes, Valkris did exactly what she was supposed to do. What is wrong with verifying the information she purchased? If Kruge had any reason to kill her, it would have been if she didn't verify that the information she purchased was legit thus wasting Kruge's time and resources. Kruge's mentality is more in line with the 'Evil Genius' from Time Bandits.
  • Cartwright: But why, if that's the case, are you unable to escape from this fortress?
  • [Evil blows Cartwright up]
  • Evil: ...That's a good question.
This works for Time Bandits because it's supposed to be funny. It doesn't work for Star Trek III because it's trying to be serious.
 
I'm unaware of anything in TSFS that suggests that Kruge is either particularly intelligent or particularly well-balanced psychologically. He probably thought Valkris might reveal what she knew to someone else if he left her alive.
 
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