Daedelus class sphere and disk

[ZapBrannigan]

2001 began filming before Trek premiered on television. How likely is it that Kubrick et al in the UK got a chance to see Enterprise designs? It's possible that someone might have seen advance Trek publicity, but I don't know how likely that was.

But Star Trek was in front of the public for two years before 2001 was released. That's a long lead time. If the Enterprise had a spherical hull similar to the Discovery, I think Kubrick would sent his design guy back to the drawing board to come up with something that could accommodate the interior sets, but differently. And he'd reshoot the fx. And MGM would have been furious about it, and they'd want to know if Desilu had ripped them off.

 

[mb22]

When were the 2001 designs finalized, models built etc.? If significant progress had already been made. MGM would have been even more furious about Kubrick spending more money just because of the resemblance.

 

[Warped9]

I think it’s reaching to suggest Kubrick used a design element similar to something Matt Jefferies discarded or would have changed it if Jefferies had gone with it. Lots of people come up with similar ideas independent of each other.

Not everything is a conspiracy or a deliberate ripoff.

 

[drt]

My tentative thesis is that a movie does not want to be accused of copying somebody else's TV show. For example, Interstellar aimed its wormhole at a whole other galaxy, which is insane and plot-unnecessary, but it sidestepped undue comparisons to Deep Space Nine. And incidentally to Contact with Jody Foster.

No, it was entirely plot necessary. They needed Gargantua (the black hole in the other galaxy) to be of large enough diameter that there wouldn't be tidal forces causing spagettification before reaching the event horizon (otherwise Cooper and TARS couldn't enter it), which necessitated a black hole of 100 million solar masses. This is twenty times the size of Sagittarius A*, the black hole at the center of our galaxy, so it had to be in another galaxy. The largest black hole observed is 17 billion solar masses (NGC1227), so Gargantua isn't even crazy huge.

 

[Takeru]

But Star Trek was in front of the public for two years before 2001 was released. That's a long lead time. If the Enterprise had a spherical hull similar to the Discovery, I think Kubrick would sent his design guy back to the drawing board to come up with something that could accommodate the interior sets, but differently. And he'd reshoot the fx. And MGM would have been furious about it, and they'd want to know if Desilu had ripped them off.

I doubt Kubrick would have cared about some random new tv show using a generic shape like a sphere too. Especially because the Discovery One and the Daedalus design don't even look that similar outside of the sphere.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Wasn’t the prevailing thought about the Enterprise was that those two long triangular things under the saucer was landing gear (and the third pair of landing gear was under the saucer neck), somewhat akin to the C-57D from Forbidden Planet?

I seem to recall reading that the original idea from the producers of TOS was that the saucer could routinely separate from the stardrive section upon entering a solar system, and the stardrive would park some where convenient and the saucer would explore the rest of the solar system on its own, possibly even landing if necessary/possible, shuttlecraft and transporters could also be used to extend and expedite system wide exploration. So clearly in this case the saucer would not only be making a controlled landing, but also take off and ascent, not just once, but on a continuous and regular basis.

 

[Dukhat]

I doubt Kubrick would have cared about some random new tv show using a generic shape like a sphere too. Especially because the Discovery One and the Daedalus design don't even look that similar outside of the sphere.

That's correct. Kubrick only cared about his own models being reused in some other production. If some other film used a sphere-ship of their own, it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[publiusr]

Before All Good Thing’s hospital ship, the last sphere carrier was the Searcher…

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think it’s reaching to suggest Kubrick used a design element similar to something Matt Jefferies discarded or would have changed it if Jefferies had gone with it. Lots of people come up with similar ideas independent of each other.

Not everything is a conspiracy or a deliberate ripoff.

This, and Jefferies--although brilliant and innovative--was not the first person to design a sci-fi body with a spherical section for command or habitation; his early Star Trek designs were pre-dated by several artists, such as Kurt Röschl, and others in the 1950s.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Not everything is a conspiracy or a deliberate ripoff.

I never suggested a conspiracy or deliberate ripoff. My point was that a design coincidence with a pre-existing TV show would have embarrassed a major motion picture.

 

[Warped9]

How come no one accuses Jefferies of ripping off saucers in other films and TV series?

The design of the Jupiter II in Lost In Space was deliberately inspired by the idea of a flying saucer only here it was humans flying the saucer. I seem to recall Jefferies saying he initially wanted to avoid a saucer (because of the flying saucer connotation), but eventually went with it because it simply worked and looked good.

 

[Shawnster]

How come no one accuses Jefferies of ripping off saucers in other films and TV series?

Because the idea of a saucer shaped spacecraft was around long before Jeffries designed the Enterprise?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kubrick only cared about his own models being reused in some other production.

I was still very sad when I heard about all those beautiful Discovery sets being destroyed.

Although Peter Hyams did an excellent job recreating them for 2010. Imagine what it could have done with the centrifuge!

 

[JoseNoodles]

And the ENT novels suggest that the Daedalus class actually predates the NX class by a decade, and was supposed to be the original warp 5 ship, but was destroyed in an accident in its maiden voyage. And the Deadalus class later saw service because they could be produced en masse quicker than an NX class or Intrepid-type.

Its better to think that at the very least, the Deadalus designs are laying around Starfleet in Archer's era, just waiting to be used.

The Daedalus novels, right? I remembering reading those.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I was still very sad when I heard about all those beautiful Discovery sets being destroyed.

Although Peter Hyams did an excellent job recreating them for 2010. Imagine what it could have done with the centrifuge!

When I went to the Museum of Pop Culture here in Seattle for my birthday a few years ago, they had the Discovery model from 2010 hanging from the ceiling. I don't know if it's still there or not, might be going back to take a look as I've just found out that my King County Library card grants me free access.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

When I went to the Museum of Pop Culture here in Seattle for my birthday a few years ago, they had the Discovery model from 2010 hanging from the ceiling. I don't know if it's still there or not, might be going back to take a look as I've just found out that my King County Library card grants me free access.

Maybe you take some pictures and post them for us.

 

[Warped9]

As I’ve mentioned before I’ve played around with spherical hull designs and some of them can look okay, but must if not all look awkward from forward angles as the sphere becomes dominant and ungainly.

One little trick I learned was to avoid a perfect sphere, but rather use a slightly flattened one which seems to shed visual weight. The size of the sphere in relation to the rest of the design is also key—too big or too small and it all looks wrong.

Back to the Deadalus. I’ve seen one or two fan made versions that have looked decent, but most and including what we’ve seen onscreen just look poor and clumsy.

 

[Dukhat]

When I went to the Museum of Pop Culture here in Seattle for my birthday a few years ago, they had the Discovery model from 2010 hanging from the ceiling. I don't know if it's still there or not, might be going back to take a look as I've just found out that my King County Library card grants me free access.

I don’t know if the 2010 Discovery was the same size as the original. I seem to recall the original being quite large.

 

[Ronald Held]

Isn't the idea of the Daedalus class to look more primitive and less sophisticated?

 

[Warped9]

Isn't the idea of the Daedalus class to look more primitive and less sophisticated?

You can do that without looking clunky.








The DY100 is distinctly primitive and unsophisticated yet it still manages to look rather cool in its own right. WW1, WW2 and 1950’s-‘60’s fighter planes are primitive by today’s standards yet they still have an integral wow factor or even beauty to their appearance.