How Do Social Conservative Star Fans Enjoy Star Trek?

[1001001]

One might argue that in the Star Trek universe, all possibilities are open to children, since their unique talents don’t have to fit a market economy. In other words you can be good at biology or art, and still be valued and have your basic needs met.

If you’re not good at something, you might be good at something else, and you don’t need to stress and worry about food and shelter when you’re an adult.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I never said we couldn't! I'd love to see it. But if we got Star Trek: A Broad Depiction of Federation Society, then Star Trek as a franchise would have a much harder time pulling off its all-things-to-all-political-orientations trick.

If handled correctly, it could actually pull it off.

 

[Weyoun 251]

One might argue that in the Star Trek universe, all possibilities are open to children, since their unique talents don’t have to fit a market economy. In other words you can be good at biology or art, and still be valued and have your basic needs met.

If you’re not good at something, you might be good at something else, and you don’t need to stress and worry about food and shelter when you’re an adult.

The Star Trek universe (in theory) provides an equality of starting point for these kids - no child is malnourished or at a shitty school or unable to afford cello lessons or tennis coaching.

No child is deemed to be unruly because they have undiagnosed ADHD

No child is prejudged simply on their name or race

From that starting point, and that fact that there are near limitless opportunities as adults in any field then every child has the opportunity to succeed in the field that they are strongest or most interested in

 

[Sci]

If handled correctly, it could actually pull it off.

Not if they go deep on how the UFP actually works. Eventually, the writers would have to make choices to explain how the systems in the UFP work, and inevitably those choices would upset some fans who want to see one side or the other of the equality-vs-hierarchy paradigm as triumphant.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Not if they go deep on how the UFP actually works. Eventually, the writers would have to make choices to explain how the systems in the UFP work, and inevitably those choices would upset some fans who want to see one side or the other of the equality-vs-hierarchy paradigm as triumphant.

And what would be your solution to your posed problem of "Equality vs Hierarchy"?

 

[Finn]

One might argue that in the Star Trek universe, all possibilities are open to children, since their unique talents don’t have to fit a market economy. In other words you can be good at biology or art, and still be valued and have your basic needs met.

If you’re not good at something, you might be good at something else, and you don’t need to stress and worry about food and shelter when you’re an adult.

Yeah, I like the idea that it's easier for a Federation teenager to decide they want to wander among one of the M-class planets well within Federation space and explore an uninhabited world, than it is for someone from our era to buy a boat and sail the world after high school.

 

[1001001]

Especially with kids - is the fat kid who can barely kick a ball or run 100m but by the end of a week long football camp is now able to complete that run and complete more passes than they miss less deserving of their achievement being recognised that the kid who’s parents have had the spare time to practice playing football in the garden in the evening and have money for more nutritious food who is the fastest and best players but may not have notably increased their skill level over the week

“Participation trophies” tend to recognise someone stepping out of their comfort zone and making their best attempt so to recognise and encourage that rather than simply rewarding the naturally good at sports kid who may not have had to put much effort in

Exactly.

Developmentally speaking, it’s far more important to encourage young children’s efforts rather than outcomes. Especially since as they get older, sustained effort over time will be required to achieve outcomes.

 

[1001001]

I don’t recall any child in Star Trek being discouraged by the adults because they did not succeed the first time they tried something.

 

[Farscape One]

Humanity in STAR TREK (at the very least, on Earth and in the core worlds of the Federation) doesn't have the same issues of resource scarcity we have today, so it's a lot easier for that society to be able to give out those opportunities.

 

[Finn]

Tom Paris in that flashback?

 

[fireproof78]

Humanity in STAR TREK (at the very least, on Earth and in the core worlds of the Federation) doesn't have the same issues of resource scarcity we have today, so it's a lot easier for that society to be able to give out those opportunities.

Because there is minimal cost, either in time or resources. The only real costs are around individual capability and some trial and error.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Humanity in STAR TREK (at the very least, on Earth and in the core worlds of the Federation) doesn't have the same issues of resource scarcity we have today, so it's a lot easier for that society to be able to give out those opportunities.

Our society unfortunately uses resource scarcity to essentially "reward" being born to the "right" parents, in the "right" country - the advantage conferred by going to the right school, and your parents working jobs that allow them more time at home to help their children with education, sport, music etc means that it is very difficult for people from disadvantaged backgrounds to break through that barrier and even access the opportunities.

You look at a Boris Johnson or a Liz Truss or a Jeremy Corbyn - they are in no way competent enough to have had the opportunities that they did but they got there for having been born into the right environment.

Human nature is unfortunately also still driven by tribal instincts and so where resource is scarce - say job roles or places at university - there is unconscious bias (sometimes not so unconscious) at play in many cases which lead people to favour offering the spot to someone from a similar background to themselves

Trek shows us a world where people don't have to worry about that but you still see prejudice at play (Sisko not wanting Jake to hang out with Nog is very relatable to what is seen in the real work with parents not wanting their kid to hang out with the "wrong" people) and instances of elitism (how Nova and Red Squad see themselves above the other cadets - very Bullingdon club)

 

[fireproof78]

Trek shows us a world where people don't have to worry about that but you still see prejudice at play (Sisko not wanting Jake to hang out with Nog is very relatable to what is seen in the real work with parents not wanting their kid to hang out with the "wrong" people) and instances of elitism (how Nova and Red Squad see themselves above the other cadets - very Bullingdon club)

Voyager shows us that some experience is valued more highly than others, with Starfleet experience prioritized for certain academic positions.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Voyager shows us that some experience is valued more highly than others, with Starfleet experience prioritized for certain academic positions.

My mind is going blank on this mate - can you remind me of the context?

 

[Sci]

And what would be your solution to your posed problem of "Equality vs Hierarchy"?

I mean, I have my ideas, but my preferred choices are not the point. The point is that if we see UFP society in depth, the writers would have to make choices in how they depict that society that will inevitably go against the political preferences of some segment of the audience (whichever segment that might be).

 

[UssGlenn]

Especially with kids - is the fat kid who can barely kick a ball or run 100m but by the end of a week long football camp is now able to complete that run and complete more passes than they miss less deserving of their achievement being recognised that the kid who’s parents have had the spare time to practice playing football in the garden in the evening and have money for more nutritious food who is the fastest and best players but may not have notably increased their skill level over the week

“Participation trophies” tend to recognise someone stepping out of their comfort zone and making their best attempt so to recognise and encourage that rather than simply rewarding the naturally good at sports kid who may not have had to put much effort in

the fat kid deserves the "most improved" trophy, not a participation trophy. the participation trophy goes to the kids who don't improve all summer.

 

[Weyoun 251]

the fat kid deserves the "most improved" trophy, not a participation trophy. the participation trophy goes to the kids who don't improve all summer.

Yes - that would be better

I hadn't meant it literally but rather as a term for "acknowledgement" or "recognition" but absolutely that improvement could/should be supported

Probably not articulated well on my part

 

[Farscape One]

the fat kid deserves the "most improved" trophy, not a participation trophy. the participation trophy goes to the kids who don't improve all summer.

Thank you. Kids should definitely be rewarded for their efforts, but simply showing up should not be a trophy.

 

[at Quark's]

Yep, that's a major part of how Star Trek squares the circle of creating a future that looks appealing to both leftists and rightists -- avoiding showing most of future society and how it functions, and instead focusing on this small slice of life (a space paramilitary) while insisting that progressive politics have triumphed back home where the camera does not go.

In a way, not that different from how we get to see warp drive, transporters, and Heisenberg compensators take Our Heroes on amazing adventures, but never how they actually work. They work 'very well, thank you'. Just as their society supposedly does.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Children though are notoriously fickle and easily lose interest so them sticking with something for a full week, 2 weeks or over a number of months should be recognised as it has shown commitment.

Commitment and consistency are valuable skills and showing that those elements will be rewarded over time isn't a bad thing - with work for example if you are consistent in your work and therefore meet the minimum commitment then you get rewarded through salary (participation trophy). If you are a high flyer or do a course (most improved...) then you might get a bonus which is essentially the trophy for best player