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Missing 32" Enterprise finally found...

We should have the equivalent of a swear jar for every time a thread is derailed by an outburst of the same tired criticisms of the newer shows that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread...

But anyway, back to the main topic, has there been any new developments for the model?
 
32" Enterprise

33 they say.

No really, for me this is THE Enterprise. I don't care much for the cgi remasters, I actually despise that the original episodes aren't available to watch. I blame the Okudas.

For me, true Star Trek can only be experienced in a UHF 14'' tube TV. It's like reading Shakespeare in the original Klingon.

4K is for Avengers movies
 
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33 they say.

No really, for me this is THE Enterprise. I don't care much for the cgi remasters, I actually despise that the original episodes aren't available to watch.

For me, true Star Trek can only be experienced in a UHF 14'' tube TV. It's like reading Shakespeare in the original Klingon.

4K if for Avengers movies

I like your sense of humor.

I actually went and bought TOS on DVD on eBay (the red, yellow & blue plastic container version) because I wanted the original version w/o all that TOS-R stuff. Just like my original SW trilogy DVDs w/o all that George-Lucas-midlife-crisis-need-to-add-stuff-to-movies-that-don't-need-additions stuff.
 
It's 1995 again. The primeval internet composed only of Kirk vs Picard and Star Trek vs Star Wars, which one is the best?

Only now is TOS-R vs SW Special Editions which one is the worst

where is the jar I have 0.25c
 
I don't have a problem with minor inconsistencies in any specific show. It's when a 2020's production advertises itself as taking place in the same continuity as a show produced in the 1960's, then goes out of its way to make said show look and feel nothing like that '60's show, is what doesn't hold up for me.

I'm sure Roddenberry would say to you exactly what he said to fans who complained about TMP looking completely different from TOS: That it was an improved dramatization taking advantage of higher budget and technology to depict the future more authentically than was possible in the 1960s.
 
I'm sure Roddenberry would say to you exactly what he said to fans who complained about TMP looking completely different from TOS: That it was an improved dramatization taking advantage of higher budget and technology to depict the future more authentically than was possible in the 1960s.

Yeah, I'm not interested in Roddenberry's opinion. I will choose to interpret this fictional universe the way I want to. YMMV.
 
Personally, I have never really been bothered by 'thread derailment'. I feel that it reflects normal conversation. Having everything divided into rigid topics is quite artificial. The only real advantage is that it is easier to find discussions about specific subjects.

I feel that topics will get back on track eventually....and if they don't, interest was petering out to nothing anyway, wasn't it?

Sometimes the tangents are interesting and relevant in perhaps an offhand way.

Okay, back to discussing 32 inches. Of....what was it, again? :lol:
 
anyway

The person in possession of the model has probably been scared back into hiding. He tried to fly that auction under the radar but it all blew up and now he probably has it wrapped in a blanket under a bridge. Police cars are above with the spotlights. The dogs are on his scent. He may try to cross the border.

We might not have news of it for a while.
 
IIRC. knowledge of the wooden model was rumored two weeks before the RPF broke the story.

I did hear a mention something about that, but that would be before the auction was listed, and I don't know how to square that with anything that happened.
 
I'm sure Roddenberry would say to you exactly what he said to fans who complained about TMP looking completely different from TOS: That it was an improved dramatization taking advantage of higher budget and technology to depict the future more authentically than was possible in the 1960s.
I can see you are going to some effort to try to say that the relatively minor discrepancies that happen within TOS or between TOS and the TOS movies are the equivalent of the pretty major conflicts of continuity between SNW and TOS, but I do not agree that they are. I don't care if Spock was first called a Vulcanian before he was a Vulcan or that the Federation and Star Fleet were first called the United Earth Space Program Whatever It Was Called First. These are minor things that don't affect major plot points. I never had any problem accepting TMP and TOS were in the same continuity. The conflicts between SNW and TOS affect major plot points.

I don't agree with this business either of "oh, what I'm seeing on my tv isn't REALLY the way things went, this is just a representation so just accept anything that you're shown whether it agrees with what came before or not." I think I should be able to count that what I'm seeing on my tv is actually the way things went down. Or if not, how many differences in aesthetics, the way characters act, the facts we are given do I have to accept? I don't think that burden should have to be on the viewer. If the producers want to say a show is in the same continuity as a previous show, then it's simple: write the show as being in the same continuity as the original.

I'm not adding to the jar. I don't have a problem with conversations within threads drifting. Like the other poster said, that's how natural conversations happen.
 
I can see you are going to some effort to try to say that the relatively minor discrepancies that happen within TOS or between TOS and the TOS movies are the equivalent of the pretty major conflicts of continuity between SNW and TOS, but I do not agree that they are.

One: as I said, the difference between our perception of "major" and "minor" discrepancies is often a function of how long we've had to rationalize them to ourselves and convince them that they're minor. I mean, The Wrath of Khan has some huge discrepancies with TOS, like inserting Chekov into "Space Seed," turning Khan's multiethnic band that were stranded as adults 15 years before into a bunch of 20-something Nordic types, having the Starfleet paraphernalia left with the Botany Bay be movie-era instead of TOS-era, retconning Kirk into an absentee father when he never gave any hint of having a son before, etc. Harve Bennett came from a time when continuity in series TV was expected to be loose and impressionistic, to keep the broad strokes but change details to suit your story, like the ways he retconned The Six Million Dollar Man's continuity repeatedly over the run of that series. But we've had 40-odd years to convince ourselves those disrepancies are smaller than they actually are.

Two: Yes, of course some of the differences are more major than they were in the '60s, but that's only reasonable to expect, because the productions are made in different generations for different audiences. Naturally certain things are interpreted differently to tailor them to those audiences, whether it's incorporating more modern technology or eliminating the casual sexism of TOS. These are changes that should be made, because creating fiction is a process of refinement and improvement. They're differences in how the imaginary reality is depicted by the storyteller, but the different depictions are meant to be of the same thing. If you ask an impressionist and a cubist to paint the same model, their paintings will be very different, but it's still the same model.

Again, the same as Marvel's pretense that the comics stories set today are in the same reality as the stories set in the '60s despite the characters having aged no more than 10-15 years. The details are adjusted to fit the times, but the important parts, the events and the experiences that shaped the characters, are still the same.

I don't agree with this business either of "oh, what I'm seeing on my tv isn't REALLY the way things went, this is just a representation so just accept anything that you're shown whether it agrees with what came before or not." I think I should be able to count that what I'm seeing on my tv is actually the way things went down.

That's where willing suspension of disbelief comes in. You can't possibly believe what you're seeing is real without some suspension of disbelief. If it were real, there wouldn't be cameras around to record it. There wouldn't be music playing in the background. The characters wouldn't look like recognizable actors, or wouldn't change their faces and voices when they're recast. They wouldn't be delivering polished, memorized dialogue but would stammer and stumble more. They wouldn't all be so good-looking and well-coiffed. There'd be no sound in space and far less light. Plus, of course, you wouldn't be able to see it at all because it wouldn't have happened yet and there's no such thing as time travel. It's always obvious that it's not real, but as a viewer, you choose to ignore the things that make it obvious. So it should be just as possible to suspend disbelief about other things.

Also, "suspension of disbelief" means it's temporary. Every story is real within itself, while you're watching or reading the story. You adjust your suspension of disbelief to buy into the premise of the story you're currently enjoying, but afterward, you come back to reality, acknowledge that it's fictional, and understand that the differences between different fictional constructs are functions of artistic choice and creative process.


Or if not, how many differences in aesthetics, the way characters act, the facts we are given do I have to accept? I don't think that burden should have to be on the viewer.

It's weird to me that you see it as a burden. Exploring how different creators interpret the same subject is part of what makes creativity interesting and fun. Think of it like listening to two different bands' covers of the same classic song, or watching two different theater companies' interpretations of Hamlet.


If the producers want to say a show is in the same continuity as a previous show, then it's simple: write the show as being in the same continuity as the original.

And that's exactly what they're doing. Continuity, in this sense, is not about what the sets or costumes look like, it's about the events, the ideas, and the characters' journeys. Everything else is just presentation. If you can accept that Robin Curtis's Saavik is the same person as Kirstie Alley's, or that this Vulcan is the same planet as this Vulcan, it shouldn't be so impossible to accept that SNW's Pike and Enterprise are the same as "The Cage"'s. The continuity is in the substance, not the surface.
 
Star Wars is worse. In the first movie, Luke's father was killed by Vader thus giving him motivation for starting the Hero's Journey. In the second movie Vader *is* the father. In the third movie, the princess from another planet, formerly love interest, is his twin *sister*.

Still, we bought all that happily.

ps. we're gonna need a bigger swear jar
 
One: as I said, the difference between our perception of "major" and "minor" discrepancies is often a function of how long we've had to rationalize them to ourselves and convince them that they're minor. I mean, The Wrath of Khan has some huge discrepancies with TOS, like inserting Chekov into "Space Seed," turning Khan's multiethnic band that were stranded as adults 15 years before into a bunch of 20-something Nordic types, having the Starfleet paraphernalia left with the Botany Bay be movie-era instead of TOS-era, retconning Kirk into an absentee father when he never gave any hint of having a son before, etc. Harve Bennett came from a time when continuity in series TV was expected to be loose and impressionistic, to keep the broad strokes but change details to suit your story, like the ways he retconned The Six Million Dollar Man's continuity repeatedly over the run of that series. But we've had 40-odd years to convince ourselves those disrepancies are smaller than they actually are.

Two: Yes, of course some of the differences are more major than they were in the '60s, but that's only reasonable to expect, because the productions are made in different generations for different audiences. Naturally certain things are interpreted differently to tailor them to those audiences, whether it's incorporating more modern technology or eliminating the casual sexism of TOS. These are changes that should be made, because creating fiction is a process of refinement and improvement. They're differences in how the imaginary reality is depicted by the storyteller, but the different depictions are meant to be of the same thing. If you ask an impressionist and a cubist to paint the same model, their paintings will be very different, but it's still the same model.

Again, the same as Marvel's pretense that the comics stories set today are in the same reality as the stories set in the '60s despite the characters having aged no more than 10-15 years. The details are adjusted to fit the times, but the important parts, the events and the experiences that shaped the characters, are still the same.



That's where willing suspension of disbelief comes in. You can't possibly believe what you're seeing is real without some suspension of disbelief. If it were real, there wouldn't be cameras around to record it. There wouldn't be music playing in the background. The characters wouldn't look like recognizable actors, or wouldn't change their faces and voices when they're recast. They wouldn't be delivering polished, memorized dialogue but would stammer and stumble more. They wouldn't all be so good-looking and well-coiffed. There'd be no sound in space and far less light. Plus, of course, you wouldn't be able to see it at all because it wouldn't have happened yet and there's no such thing as time travel. It's always obvious that it's not real, but as a viewer, you choose to ignore the things that make it obvious. So it should be just as possible to suspend disbelief about other things.

Also, "suspension of disbelief" means it's temporary. Every story is real within itself, while you're watching or reading the story. You adjust your suspension of disbelief to buy into the premise of the story you're currently enjoying, but afterward, you come back to reality, acknowledge that it's fictional, and understand that the differences between different fictional constructs are functions of artistic choice and creative process.




It's weird to me that you see it as a burden. Exploring how different creators interpret the same subject is part of what makes creativity interesting and fun. Think of it like listening to two different bands' covers of the same classic song, or watching two different theater companies' interpretations of Hamlet.




And that's exactly what they're doing. Continuity, in this sense, is not about what the sets or costumes look like, it's about the events, the ideas, and the characters' journeys. Everything else is just presentation. If you can accept that Robin Curtis's Saavik is the same person as Kirstie Alley's, or that this Vulcan is the same planet as this Vulcan, it shouldn't be so impossible to accept that SNW's Pike and Enterprise are the same as "The Cage"'s. The continuity is in the substance, not the surface.
Lots of words, is any of this about the 33" Enterprise or should I skip? :)
 
anyway

The person in possession of the model has probably been scared back into hiding. He tried to fly that auction under the radar but it all blew up and now he probably has it wrapped in a blanket under a bridge. Police cars are above with the spotlights. The dogs are on his scent. He may try to cross the border.

We might not have news of it for a while.

Hopefully it wasn’t hidden under the 10 freeway in LA.

(reference for non-Angelinos: huge fire from homeless sheltering under the freeway caused a closure of the fwy as they try to determine structural impact)

the person in possession of said model is probably consulting a lawyer. There’s a huge potential payday but also unknown legal ramifications. It’s not unlike artwork stolen by the nazis during ww2. (Note: I’m not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv. If my legal understanding is simple, please forgive me)
 
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