If they had cast Norwegians nobody would care.
"I don’t think there can be any argument" is a nonsensical phrase here.
To this day nobody can agree what worked with TNG let alone what worked with TOS. If it was easy everyone would do it.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
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"I don’t think there can be any argument" is a nonsensical phrase here.
I agree with the second paragraph, but not the first.
There's an almost 20 year gap between the end of TOS and the start of TNG... tv audiences were different in the 80s than the 60s. What might have worked in the 60s may not necessarily work in the 80s. (Perfect example while staying in the scifi realm: does anyone seriously think the orginal BSG as it was would have worked in the 90s or later? I think the answer might be a universal 'no'.)
Saying that what worked on TOS would have worked on TNG season 1 is not realistic.
Fans can't agree on this stuff. You expect writers to do so?
I can see them being stretched too thin, but I’m not sure I’d say burnout, since Moore still wrote great episodes once he moved over to DS9. And I’m sure fans of VOY can point to Braga episodes that are their favorites.
I wonder if there was ever any consideration given to having more of a pause between the TNG series finale and the production of Generations. It seems like both the TNG final season and Generations would probably have benefitted from it.
I agree burnout might be a bit too harsh a word for Moore and Braga, but they were most certainly running themselves ragged doing those things all at once.
The general feeling of TNG season 7 was they were burnt out. Half an episode devoted to Data's cat? Every lead had a family member episode? (Except Riker, who got a duplicate of himself at the tail end of season 6.) It just felt like they were running out of ideas.
I'm glad they all can't agree. In the 2020s, that is. It's what's made it possible for DSC, PIC, and SNW to all exist during the Kurtzman Era, despite having three very different ideas about how to do Star Trek.Fans can't agree on this stuff. You expect writers to do so?
In 1986/1987, it was a little different. It was just TOS and four movies. TAS was ignored by the creators at the time. The idea for what Star Trek is was a lot more clear-cut. In Star Trek Movie Memories, Harve Bennett was quoted saying he thought Gene Roddenberry was confusing his vision of Humanity that he acquired in later years with Star Trek. So when Gene Roddenberry said "The future is non-violent!", Harve Bennett, having just seen all of TOS, could call bullshit on that.
That's why I think Gene Roddenberry didn't want the writers to look back at TOS. He didn't want to have the same types of arguments with those writers that he had with Harve Bennett. He didn't want to deal with, "But in TOS they did it this way!"
Of course, if he felt that way, he shouldn't have brought on TOS writers at the beginning of TNG, but I think he did that because they were his friends, and maybe he thought he could get them to go along with his changes.
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I'm not locked in on Shades of Grey being the absolute worst, but at least Sub Rosa tried to tell an original story and gave us the funny blazing Bev meme.
Shades of Grey is just as lame and also trying to be 'sexy' while failing miserably, but in addition it's a way more generic, barely developed story which only exists to enable a clip show entirely using some of the worst clips the show had to choose from.
To help me remember which episode it is*, I often come up with a catch phrase, like "The Riker Within"**.
In this case the catch phrase is "... and no Lieutenant Yar!", from a line so awful, I can't imagine even Whitey McWhiteface improving upon its delivery.
* - TNG has not only the blandest music, but also a great many episode titles that are so bland I have no idea which episodes they are.
** - That one's obvious, no?
"YOU SHALL HAVE NO VACCINE AND NO LIUETENANT YAR!!!!!!"
And the name of Lutan's wife - Yareena - is so on-the-nose it's like they didn't even bother. Which...sorta tracks when you watch the episode. 
Depends on what part of the show you're referring to. I admit that when I think of original BSG I think of the movie and to a lesser extent the Lords of Kobol two parter. When they had the money (and didn't have to do "Apollo / Starbuck stranded on a planet with sets we can afford") they did some pretty good space opera. And sure, by the time it was on the air they were chasing that sweet, sweet Star Wars money.
But go look at that first episode especially leading up to and including the genocidal attack. Even the aftermath with trying to feed people in the fleet. It was anything but frivolous. Especially on 1978 prime time TV. Yes, then you get to "Space Vegas" and "Love Love Love" and it gets a a lot more so.
It kind of blows my minds that the Cylons were not originally robots but then they figured out if they weren't aliens then it was alright to shoot a lot of them every week.
Angel One? Up the Long Ladder? First Contact?
I think one of season one's problems was it was a little too like TOS in certain aspects. It came across as a little out of step with the then current TV landscape of the late 80s.
Original BSG has a great premise and a decent start but they didn't keep with the gravity of the situation. I think the elements of too much happy while on the run after your entire species was wiped out just didn't ring true. While RDM's BSG went a bit too dark at certain times, it was a LOT more believable.
(Then again, audiences probably wouldn't have been ready for such a dark version of BSG in the late 70s. Sort of like why comparing Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger's portrayal of Joker is unfair... completely different eras.)
I don't need to prove it. It's a controversial opinion, not a controversial fact.
The 60s and 80s are not centuries apart in terms of certain viewership interests and patterns. Many of the same people who watched first run TV in the 60s, or those (young and older) who caught syndicated versions in the 70s were among the 80s TV audience. That, and the creation of the TOS movies firmly established that Star Trek was not an anthology of unrelated events for dissimilar audiences, but a fictional universe that spanned in-universe decades as part of a running continuity (no matter how certain post-TOS series screwed that up from time to time).
One of the near-endless reasons TOS was a financial juggernaut for Paramount as a syndicated program and on home video in the 80s was not isolated to the interests of those from the 1st run / NBC era by any stretch of the imagination. Franchises do not succeed if its origin point failed so miserably that it never developed a cultural connection / impact with more than a 1st run audience. TOS continued to be one of Paramount's jewels in its crown due to its cross-generational appeal.
Uh huh. But is it an opinion you have or a delusion? Why do you think they’re not the worst? There’s a difference between not the worst and not enjoyable despite being the worst.I don't need to prove it. It's a controversial opinion, not a controversial fact.
I don't think most of the ideas in the TOS episodes are uniquely 1960s. "A Private Little War" and "The Way to Eden" are the most obvious "It's the '60s!" type of episodes. "Turnabout Intruder" as well, in that you can tell it was made during the Mad Men era.
Most of the rest of TOS would've worked just as well in the '80s as it did in the '60s, as long as they updated the writing style. The Cold War was winding down when TNG Season 1 came out and Reagan had already said, "Gorbachev tear down this wall!", so I don't know if they would've been able to do Cold War themed episodes in the same way...
... but, if you watched "The Enemy" and "The Defector" from TNG Season 3, with the Enterprise pitted against the Romulans, it looks like it still very much had a Cold War mentality. "The Hunted" even served as an allegorical story about disenfranchised Vietnam veterans.
Most of the rest of TOS would've worked just as well in the '80s as it did in the '60s, as long as they updated the writing style. The Cold War was winding down when TNG Season 1 came out and Reagan had already said, "Gorbachev tear down this wall!", so I don't know if they would've been able to do Cold War themed episodes in the same way...
... but, if you watched "The Enemy" and "The Defector" from TNG Season 3, with the Enterprise pitted against the Romulans, it looks like it still very much had a Cold War mentality. "The Hunted" even served as an allegorical story about disenfranchised Vietnam veterans.
He had the "/s" at the end of his post to mean he was being sarcastic. Which is why I didn't respond to that.
He had the "/s" at the end of his post to mean he was being sarcastic. Which is why I didn't respond to that.
happily rescind the comment - I’m awful at internet speak so didn’t clock it.
cheers for the heads up mate
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