What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Tallguy]

Here's a controversial TrekLit opinion: I regard Vonda McIntyre's Enterprise: The First Adventure as much superior to her The Entropy Effect, so much so that I regard Enterprise: The First Adventure, rather than The Entropy Effect, as her Star Trek masterpiece.

Entropy wasn't bad by any stretch. But I didn't realize it was in the running.

Of course The Search for Spock is her Star Trek masterpiece.

1-3 (Hi, Gene!) are such amazing enhancements of the films. After that they're just books. Good books sometimes. But still run of the mill adaptations. (I've never read a TNG movie novel.) (I think I read Encounter at Farpoint but I don't really remember it.)

 

[Farscape One]

Entropy wasn't bad by any stretch. But I didn't realize it was in the running.

Of course The Search for Spock is her Star Trek masterpiece.

1-3 (Hi, Gene!) are such amazing enhancements of the films. After that they're just books. Good books sometimes. But still run of the mill adaptations. (I've never read a TNG movie novel.) (I think I read Encounter at Farpoint but I don't really remember it.)

It's been many years since I read a STAR TREK novel, but for TNG I definitely suggest reading Vendetta. It's one of the few non-numbered ones from the 90s. Also The Romulan Prize was really good... #26, if I remember correctly.

 

[Tallguy]

It's been many years since I read a STAR TREK novel, but for TNG I definitely suggest reading Vendetta. It's one of the few non-numbered ones from the 90s. Also The Romulan Prize was really good... #26, if I remember correctly.

IIRC that was the one where Peter David didn't feel he was being edited properly so he basically vomited a bunch of stuff into the book to see what they would do. And to his horror everything went out as written. (This is me remembering the story from 32 years ago.) I do remember things happening and "sounding a death knell" more than once in the book. (Again, 32 years.)

It was a neat idea: The Doomsday Machines were built to fight the Borg. And he wrote a version of the DM that sounded a lot like Spindrad's original idea. My favorite thing was the return of Elizabeth Shelby.

 

[Idoliside]

DSC Season 4 is by far the strongest season of the entire series and had a far more satisfying conclusion than either PIC Season 2 or either show's Season 3.

It was a particularily excellent season. Honestly preferred it over Season 3

 

[MikHutch]

I still liked PIC season 3 more but DISC season 4 was pretty good

 

[Paul755]

DSC Season 4 is by far the strongest season of the entire series and had a far more satisfying conclusion than either PIC Season 2 or either show's Season 3.

I agree about the first part. Disco S4 is hands down the best of the series. But more satisfying than the end of PIC S3…hmmm I dunno about that one.

 

[MikHutch]

PIC s3 was definitely more satisfying for me

 

[Citiprime]

I've always felt season 2 of DS9 is really underrated and just overall a strong watch from beginning to end. I remember at the time the show was still in TNG's shadow, especially since this was airing during TNG's final season. And there were still criticisms in the media that felt Avery Brooks was too stiff and passive as Sisko. I know some people feel that Brooks didn't really get comfortable till he shaved his head for season 4 and basically became the "Hawk" version of Sisko.

I liked the "Circle" 3-parter that starts off season 2, where Sisko and the crew are the only people in Starfleet that aren't stupid, disobey orders to stay around and prove Cardassian involvement in the coup. And there are individual episodes that, while not great, I found interesting were kind Law & Order-ish in that they tried to be ripped from the headlines (e.g., adoption by someone from another culture, and whether biology or a history of being the nurturing parent was more important).

And I've always felt season 2 of DS9 has a really strong finish. "The Maquis" two-parter that introduces them, "Through the Looking Glass" which beyond "Mirror Mirror" from TOS is my favorite Mirror Universe episode, the O'Brien-on-trial on Cardassia episode which shows how Kafkaesque the Cardassian legal system is, and it all leads to "The Jem'Hadar."

Probably, other than "Call to Arms" and "Best of Both Worlds," it's one of my favorite Trek season finales. I remember wearing out a VCR watching that episode over the summer of 1994.

 

[MikHutch]

I heard at the time people didn't like the storylines so the showrunners added the Dominion

 

[Citiprime]

I do remember either Ron Moore or Ira Steven Behr saying there was a directive from Paramount that said cut down on the Bajoran culture/religion episodes. That's a big part of season 1 and the beginning of season 2, but then fades a lot afterwards.

Also, the original conception of the Dominion is different than what we ended up getting. It was originally conceived to be an evil version of the Federation. Multiple species that had banded together to form a unified interstellar government, but it would have the inverse of the Federation's values.

 

[Lord Garth]

I do remember either Ron Moore or Ira Steven Behr saying there was a directive from Paramount that said cut down on the Bajoran culture/religion episodes. That's a big part of season 1 and the beginning of season 2, but then fades a lot afterwards.

That wouldn't surprise me. Paramount was probably worried about how the more Star Trek delved into religion, they more it might offend some viewers and religious groups.

 

[MikHutch]

I liked the Bajoran stuff. I do think they should've shown a few more subgroups of different religious practices. But at least they didn't start off like a planet of hats

But Bajor and it's history really showed the effects of space colonization from the Cardassians in a way the Klingons and Romulans were never shown to be

As for the Dominion, idk if the anti Federation idea ever could've worked

 

[drt]

Same here. TAS is underrated and very creative in terms of alien life forms and interesting story ideas

In line with the above opinion I think the Burn is very much something in line with a TOS or TAS storyline and absolutely welcome it's cause. It's not stupid, or underwhelming. It's very much in keeping with a lot of different aliens out there.

The Burn reminds me most of Kevin "The Douwd" Uxbridge destroying the Husnock, so the idea is in line with a TNG storyline as well.

 

[Farscape One]

The Burn reminds me most of Kevin "The Douwd" Uxbridge destroying the Husnock, so the idea is in line with a TNG storyline as well.

But the Douwd was an immortal being that always had those powers. Su'Kal was a Kelpian child.

And Kevin directed his rage at the Husnock, and knew what he did. Su'Kal didn't know a single thing about the universe past his holodeck, and was just a widespread burst he knew nothing about.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

But the Douwd was an immortal being that always had those powers. Su'Kal was a Kelpian child.

And Kevin directed his rage at the Husnock, and knew what he did. Su'Kal didn't know a single thing about the universe past his holodeck, and was just a widespread burst he knew nothing about.

Yup. Like I said. Cool.

 

[Farscape One]

Yup. Like I said. Cool.

This is one part where I completely disagree. But I'll agree to disagree with you on this one, because nothing wil convince me that The Burn's cause being that was anything short of stupid.

 

[Lord Garth]

I hope the cause of The Burn is eventually retconned.

 

[Farscape One]

I hope the cause of The Burn is eventually retconned.

A-frelling-men to that, dude.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I wish Star Trek DSC had started in a similar way to DSC S03.

Alternate DSC pitch -

A lone time traveller (Michael Burnham) awakes in the 32nd century with no memory of how she got there and no way to get back home.

As in DSC S03, the Federation… Starfleet… gone. The show could have been about rebuilding and reforming both organisations over several seasons. A show about new discovery, plus rediscovery. 8-900 years on from the present timeline they could have shattered everything and made everything special again.

To take an example, what if Michael and whatever ragtag band of followers she had gathered didn’t even come across a Federation starship until the Season finale of S01? A derelict that they could get running for Season 2 and by Season 4 we have something that looks like the Federaion. Season 5 would solidify that and then done.

What DSC really lacks is any kind of clear purpose or drive that runs through the seasons. It ricochets from post to post, season by season and I’m hoping for its final run it can settle down a bit.

If a random person asked me what DSC was about, I’d have a hard time boiling my description into a sound bite.

I really enjoyed Season 4. Season 3 was pretty good. In the context of SNW, I have a feeling that Season 2 would be really weird on a rewatch and while Season 1 has it’s moments, it’s unremittingly grim tone makes it really sour watching for me.

 

[Citiprime]

One of my issues with DSC season 3 is that it reminded me of the Kevin Sorbo series Andromeda (which was based on a Roddenberry idea), except I liked the idea for why the System Commonwealth fell in Andromeda better than what we got for the fall of the Federation with the Burn in DSC.

To me, it was more intriguing to think about Federation values leading them to try to make peace with something like the Magog (i.e., a vicious and violent species that feeds on others, and lays its eggs inside its victims) and that divides the Federation and the fracture tears it apart when species within it see its kindness as weakness.

I thought the most interesting scenes of Discovery season 3 is when Osyraa basically sues for peace, and Vance tries to figure out whether it's real or a ploy.

The entire deal is an attempt to get the positive political capital of the Federation while corrupting what was left of it. And it relied on a tactic that the Federation in almost every circumstance is ready to pursue: negotiation and agreements. But Osyraa wanted peace, but peace on her terms. The admiral knew that she wanted to pull the strings from behind-the-scenes. Also, some of the terms she lays out didn’t sound like the Emerald Chain had any intentions of fundamentally changing. She mentions anti-slavery legislation but legislation isn’t law until it’s passed, and even then having a law doesn’t exactly mean anything if the people who’re supposed to enforce are corrupt. Osyraa also said the armistice would entail a “15-year transition” for the Emerald Chain to stop violating the Prime Directive.

Osyraa herself says that people still believe in the Federation as a symbol of “hope.” The only thing that’s probably kept what’s left of it together is that belief. To make an agreement with the Emerald Chain, an organization that’s committed war crimes, condones slavery, and routinely violates Starfleet’s highest principle would undermine that faith without a public example that the Emerald Chain was willing to change and answer for their conduct.

And to me what made all of this even better is that if you start thinking about it, is there really a lot of diff between an agreement with the Emerald Chain and the Klingon Empire of the 23rd century? From what we're told and see in "Errand of Mercy," the Klingons have committed atrocities on par, but (from what we know) the Klingons didn’t have to pass anti-slavery legislation and have officials stand trial as part of the Khitomer Accords.