Now I'm wondering whether SEINFELD ever invented the ''man-bro'' with Shatner in mind.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Seinfeld and Fletch.
Makes as much sense as anything else.
"It's all ball bearings in warp drive systems nowadays!!"
And what values should they give up to avoid such an outcome?
Allow people who value science and want to continue to improve themselves to be part of the Federation...
The Federation punishes everyone under its umbrella for the mistakes of one member, that happened before the Federation ever existed.
Except we see them try genetic engineering again and people die.
At what point do they stop killing people in the name of science?
That is likely something that will never happen. Let's be honest, has genetic engineering killed any more people in the Federation than constant wars with their neighbors? It likely hasn't killed a tiny fraction in comparison.
This is just more of, someone did something bad, so we must punish everyone for it. No different than Ronald Reagan attacking welfare queens and punishing everyone on benefits for their crimes.
If humanity can't handle genetic engineering, then it shows they aren't as socially advanced in the 23rd/24th century as they present themselves.
We already knew that.
Ah, so abandon the values because this will never change?
A fascinatingly pragmatic attitude.
What value? That humanity continues to refuse to learn from its mistakes, instead going and hiding in a corner?
You will always have to have people to test medication and other products on before releasing them to the masses. Or else, you might end up killing a lot of people with whatever you are putting out there.
That the cost of genetic engineering is not worth the benefit.
Which is reflected in various stories across Star Trek. They use it at the most basic level, but recognize there is a line because in the past it caused far more harm than good. It's not hiding in a corner when you recognize that this causes a very negative reaction. It's not hiding to recognize a limit.
Says who? The humans? IIRC, Phlox says the Denobulans have practiced genetic engineering for centuries in Enterprise. Genetic engineering is a tool, it isn't the problem, humans are.
It is hiding in a corner. It is one of the things that make the Federation a pretty poor fairy tale. No way the other 150 members would be willing to be held back because of a bad human experience. Do all Federation members also have a ban on nuclear energy and research? Humans had a bad experience...
Seriously, we have people on this planet who would stop vaccines of all types because a few suffered adverse effects from them.
And we still see the tool used in a limited way. So, clearly there is a small limit of its use. The wholesale genetic engineering of people for improvement perhaps is questionable.
Humans banned nuclear energy in Star Trek? O_o
Not wanting to kill people seems to be a perfectly understandable value.
There is one truth to our existence, people die. People die for every imaginable reason under the Sun. Vaccines saved many more people over the centuries than they have harmed. Likely by a very, very large margin. As long as people are willing to volunteer for trials and are made aware of all facts concerning the trials, then medical science will continue to evolve. Hopefully AI will present us with tools that will make human participation less needed in the future, but that doesn't seem to be part of the Star Trek universe.
But, no matter what, someone, somewhere was the first person to be exposed to a treatment/procedure/product that may save your life or the life of someone you love.
No doubt and that is understandable. But that was from people who were given the risk and benefits and analyzed it. Informed consent is a big part of that process, and one that I do not take lightly. Categorically saying that "vaccines are good therefore accept it" takes that away.
But when you see something cause harm, as it has to humans and genetic engineering, how many people do you throw at it until you say "Yes, this does/does not work?" That's what is shown In Star Trek is that genetic engineering has risks, has killed people.
So we should hasten its approach as quickly as possible? Because this statement is nonsensical on its face in arguing for continued experimentation shown to cause harm.
So does war, yet the Federation is armed to the teeth with WMD's.
Genetic engineering that caused the ban didn't actually kill people. The people who were exposed made that judgment to wage war.
Genetic engineering may have saved lives over the long term by creating cures to save people like Henry Archer. Which is why blanket bans on anything from abortion (Right) to guns (Left) (and everything in between) are idiotic. It is "well, it would be a lot of effort to create a society that understands how to use these tools, so we'll ban it instead."
And new medication and new procedure testings have been shown to be done on the holodeck before they even get to the first person for any informed kind of trial.
TNG's "Ethics" stated that quite clearly when Dr. Russell talked about her holographic statistics.
TNG's "Ethics" stated that quite clearly when Dr. Russell talked about her holographic statistics.
We also see McCoy and Crusher test things on human subjects on the fly.
But the genetic engineering that caused the ban created those superhumans, and they DID kill millions.
If those people didn't have those abilities, they very likely wouldn't have gotten so much power to begin with to cause all those deaths.
To solve the disease or malady infecting that ship or crew at that very moment. Which also stops the spread of that ailment to other ships, colonies, etc.
That's different than a potential widescale use of a newly created drug to be used throughout the Federation, like what Dr. Russell was doing to that guy in the triage area.
Which means, maybe you learn a lesson about not increasing humans abilities all at once with no fallback position if things go badly? Nope. Just ban it all, because that is what an enlightened society that values science does, apparently.
Let's see some examples of what screwing with genetics like that has done...
1. The Eugenics Wars, that killed millions of humans.
2. Created the Klingon Augments, which also ended up killing many in their colony because of the unintended side effects.
3. Darwin Station: killed the crew of the Lantree AND condemned those children to a life of complete and total isolation.
4. The Jack Pack, with various unintended side effects for each of them.
But sure, let's just keep screwing around with genetics because why not.
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