Poll Silliest death and immediate resurrection?

[fireproof78]

Blood based therapies-real.

I don't find it that stupid.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Picard becoming a robot was downright offensive. To the character and the fans.

And the fact that it was “handled” so casually made it all the worse.

You could see it coming from a mile away.

It was not offensive to me.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Kirk barely survived a fist fight in "Space Seed," and had to use a pipe to subdue him. It's not like he pulled out a magic flotsam out of nowhere to win and spare Khan.

If you want me to justify my charge of lazy writing in the Kelvin Universe, fine. Here's just a few examples:

Star Trek (2009):

• Plot Contrivance: Why is Kirk ejected in an escape pod instead of being taken to the brig of the Enterprise? It doesn't make any sense. Like it just happens.
• Answer: It's necessary to move the plot forward. Because Kirk is ejected onto a barren planet. And what would you know it's the same planet that Nero left Spock. And what would you know it's within walking distance of where Spock is. And what would you know, Scotty is stationed on the planet too. And what would you know, Spock and Kirk are within walking distance of Scotty. And what would you know, Spock has transwarp beaming technology (that comes out of nowhere) which he has memorized to get them off of the planet and back to the Enterprise.

Star Trek Into Darkness:

• Plot Contrivance: Why was it necessary to load the 72 (augment) torpedoes on the Enterprise? If you're going to kill them anyway and shoot them at Khan to make a symbolic statement, why not kill them before you load them on the Enterprise and just shoot the bodies? Or use real torpedoes, start the war with the Klingons, and inform Khan some other way.
• Answer: It's necessary to move the plot forward, letting the Enterprise crew know what they're getting involved in, and have Alice Eve get naked. Beyond that, Marcus could have achieved the same ends by using real photon torpedoes, not raised suspicion, had his war, and sent the same "fuck you" to Khan. But because the story needs a stupid way to make the Enterprise crew aware that something is not right they do it this dumb, lazy way.

That's just a few of the ways the plot takes shortcuts to go from A to B. If we're being honest, Abrams wanted to make Star Trek action movies, and wasn't concerned about internal consistency when it came to warp drive (like the distance between Qo'Nos and Earth). So you get these lazy shortcuts.

Abrams Trek is my least favorite, hands down.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk brought back to life by Khan Blood is stupid.
Picard brought back to life in a sytho-organic body at least sounds sci-fi.

I also don't like Into Darkness, but do like Picard. So I won't say that has absolutely nothing to do with what I think...

How is it "Stupid"? Blood therapies are a real thing. Khan's blood being "special" is a Star Trek thing. Building on real science is a very SF thing.

 

[Lord Garth]

Blood therapies are one thing.

Blood brings people back from the dead? That's something else. You're not going to convince me that's plausible, not even in a suspend-my-disbelief kind of way. The doctor can put as much blood into a body as they like. If the heart's not pumping, you're not living. If there's no brain activity, no amount of blood will change that. But, let's say they get the blood pumping, and they re-spark the brain again, if all the information is gone, you're a vegetable.

Scotty was killed and immediately brought back in "The Changeling". I'm going to guess his heart stopped, but his brain activity hadn't ceased yet. He was clinically dead, but not brain dead.

 

[fireproof78]

You can easily keep a heart beating.

None of it was instantaneous or perfect. It took time, infusion and recovery.

 

[Lord Garth]

They're both rather silly, but I suppose if I had to choose one, it would be Picard's given they went all in with that death. Emotional final moments, with a glimpse of him walking into the afterlife then dying.

I can see that...

Honorable mention to Data's death in the Picard S1 finale, who is revived just long enough to say he wants to die finally and permanently, and we get a big emotional scene to show just that. Then he comes back in the third season.

This on the other hand: In PIC S1 it reads to me like Data wanting Picard to help him to commit suicide. That bothered me more than Picard's revival which I thought was silly, but the show is named Star Trek: Picard so what are you going to do? Data's "end my existence!" was the second biggest issue I had with PIC Season 1.

The first biggest was killing the black guy right off the bat toward the beginning of the first episode. And in 2020! I could open up a whole can of worms about that one, but I won't. But if they wanted to make the Zhat'Vash look really bad, they succeeded. Though maybe not in the way they intended.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Blood therapies are one thing.

Blood brings people back from the dead? That's something else. You're not going to convince me that's plausible, not even in a suspend-my-disbelief kind of way. The doctor can put as much blood into a body as they like. If the heart's not pumping, you're not living. If there's no brain activity, no amount of blood will change that. But, let's say they get the blood pumping, and they re-spark the brain again, if all the information is gone, you're a vegetable.

Scotty was killed and immediately brought back in "The Changeling". I'm going to guess his heart stopped, but his brain activity hadn't ceased yet. He was clinically dead, but not brain dead.

He wasn't dead.

MCCOY: Get me a cryo tube, now!
MCCOY: Get this guy out of the cryo tube. Keep him in an induced coma. We're gonna put Kirk inside. It's our only chance to preserve his brain function.
CAROL: How much of Khan's blood is left?
MCCOY: None. Enterprise to Spock. Spock!
(Khan is squeezing Spock's skull. Spock tries a mind meld to break free. Khan jumps down onto another garbage scow - no 3562. Spock follows and takes more punishment.)
MCCOY: Activate the cryogenic sequence. McCoy to bridge. I can't reach Spock. I need Khan alive. You get that son of a bitch back on board right now! I think he can save Kirk.

And

MCCOY: Oh, don't be so melodramatic. You were barely dead. it was the transfusion that really took its toll. You were out cold for two weeks.
KIRK: Transfusion?
MCCOY: Your cells were heavily irradiated. We had no choice.
KIRK: Khan?
MCCOY: Once we caught him, I synthesized a serum from his superblood. Tell me, are you feeling homicidal? Power mad? Despotic?
KIRK: No more than usual. How'd you catch him?
MCCOY: I didn't.
(Spock enters.)
KIRK: You saved my life.
MCCOY: Uhura and I had something to do with it, too, you know.
SPOCK: You saved my life, Captain, and the lives of
KIRK: Spock, just. Thank you.
SPOCK: You are welcome, Jim.

 

[Greg Cox]

Fair enough.

I suspect I might not be the first poster here to use a little hyperbole to make a point…

You also had the bad luck to invoke "the fans" the day after I did a whole rant on the subject in another forum.

"No! Not another post claiming to speak for all fans!!!!"

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Kirk was only "mostly-dead."

 

[Tenacity]

^ Beat me to it.

 

[NCC-73515]

Blood brings people back from the dead? That's something else. You're not going to convince me that's plausible, not even in a suspend-my-disbelief kind of way. The doctor can put as much blood into a body as they like. If the heart's not pumping, you're not living. If there's no brain activity, no amount of blood will change that. But, let's say they get the blood pumping, and they re-spark the brain again, if all the information is gone, you're a vegetable.

Scotty was killed and immediately brought back in "The Changeling". I'm going to guess his heart stopped, but his brain activity hadn't ceased yet. He was clinically dead, but not brain dead.

perhaps... just watch the scenes again...?

This on the other hand: In PIC S1 it reads to me like Data wanting Picard to help him to commit suicide. That bothered me more than Picard's revival which I thought was silly, but the show is named Star Trek: Picard so what are you going to do? Data's "end my existence!" was the second biggest issue I had with PIC Season 1.

...and maybe watch Time's Arrow again as well

 

[Citiprime]

I would argue a lot of the conversation about "blood therapies" misses the point.

Even if you think it's not "silly" because it's a science-fiction leap of something based in reality, the execution of it is what makes it silly. Just like computer hacking is real, but sometimes when Hollywood does hacking and you have two NCIS agents sharing a keyboard as they fight off a hacker, it becomes ridiculous.

And I think the Khan blood thing goes more to the ridiculous because, to me, it's another instance where the story wants to get to a certain place by taking a shortcut. The same way Abrams can't really allow the passage of time for the warp between Qo'Nos and Earth, so that's why it takes only 2 minutes. It's not something that feels like a natural development of the story, but something that happens because the plot demands it.

It's an ass-pull in order to set up the next plot development and a way to give Spock' and Khan's fight stakes.

Why does the Enterprise have to spin out of warp near the Moon? Because they need the battle to happen near Earth. Why do they need it to happen near Earth? Because after one forgettable action scene aboard the Vengeance, we can crash it into San Francisco so when it's said and done they can set up the chase and another action scene and platform fight.

 

[Shawnster]

Chalk me down as another one who thought Khan's magic blood was totally silly. I might feel different had I likes ST09 up to that point, so, take that with a grain of salt.

At least the idea of transferring consciousness and intellect into a machine or construct is a long time trope in Star Trek.

Khan's blood being "special" is a Star Trek thing.

Since when? Up ST09 when was Khan's blood a thing?

In TOS Khan was a product of eugenics, selective breeding that gave him superior physical and mental abilities. Between TWOK and ENT Khan and the Augments (were a punk band...., we, I mean...) were the result of "late 20th century genetic engineering". Still, I'm not recalling anything about their blood or healing properties.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Since when? Up ST09 when was Khan's blood a thing?

Since "Space Seed" Khan goes from being seconds from death

MCCOY: Heartbeat now thirty, dropping fast. It's a heart flutter. He's dying.
MARLA: Do something, Captain.
KIRK: Can we?
SCOTT: It'd take an hour to figure it out.
KIRK: What happens if we get him out of there?
MCCOY: He'll die in seconds if we don't.

To rapidly covering on his own

MCCOY: He'll live.
KIRK: My compliments.
MCCOY: No, I'm good, but not that good. There's something inside this man that refuses to accept death. Look at that. Even as he is now, his heart valve action has twice the power of yours and mine. Lung efficiency is fifty percent better.
(McGivers enters)

Rapid healing. A little research will show healing and blood are closely related
Pretty sure Kirk being healed by Khan's blood was inspired by that scene from "Space Seed."

. Between TWOK and ENT Khan and the Augments (were a punk band...., we, I mean...)

Looks more Metal to me.

 

[Lord Garth]

perhaps... just watch the scenes again...?

I've seen Star Trek Into Darkness twice in my entire life. Once in the theater, and a second time several years later to see if I was too harsh on it the first time. The second time around, I found out I was a bit too harsh on it the first time, but it's still not a favorite of mine and I'm not interested in watching it again. I'll take Zombie Cheerleader's (Nerys Myk's?) word for it and move on. I even gave his post a like. He did what I'd do and have done in different situations: posted exact lines of dialogue.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'll take Zombie Cheerleader (Nerys Myk's?)

Lowers mask "Yes, it is I".

 

[fireproof78]

And I think the Khan blood thing goes more to the ridiculous because, to me, it's another instance where the story wants to get to a certain place by taking a shortcut. The same way Abrams can't really allow the passage of time for the warp between Qo'Nos and Earth, so that's why it takes only 2 minutes. It's not something that feels like a natural development of the story, but something that happens because the plot demands it.

I mean, it's established way back at the beginning of the movie that there is something Khan can do for the S31 officer's child. It unpacks from there. If it's a shortcut, it's one that is set up from the beginning.

Regardless, I think this is more missing the point of claiming this resurrection is silly. It's not. It's thematic and moves with the larger themes of the work that Kirk cannot accept death in the line of duty, and has to go off half-cocked until faced with the no win scenario.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I mean, it's established way back at the beginning of the movie that there is something Khan can do for the S31 officer's child. It unpacks from there. If it's a shortcut, it's one that is set up from the beginning.

Regardless, I think this is more missing the point of claiming this resurrection is silly. It's not. It's thematic and moves with the larger themes of the work that Kirk cannot accept death in the line of duty, and has to go off half-cocked until faced with the no win scenario.

Yep, It was telegraphed through out the entire film. The little girl, the tribble....

 

[NCC-73515]

I've seen Star Trek Into Darkness twice in my entire life. Once in the theater, and a second time several years later to see if I was too harsh on it the first time. The second around, I found out I was a bit too harsh on it the first time, but it's still not a favorite of mine and I'm not interested in watching it again. I'll take Zombie Cheerleader's (Nerys Myk's?) word for it and move on. I even gave his post a like. He did what I'd do and have done in different situations: posted exact lines of dialogue.

...you only believe us when we use direct quotes?

But ok, here's the other point with direct quotes:

LAFORGE: Data, this has got to bother you a little.
DATA: On the contrary. I find it rather comforting.
LAFORGE: Comforting?
DATA: I have often wondered about my own mortality as I have seen others around me age. Until now it has been theoretically possible that I would live an unlimited period of time. And although some might find this attractive, to me it only reinforces the fact that I am artificial.
LAFORGE: I never knew how tough this must be for you.
DATA: Tough? As in difficult?
LAFORGE: Knowing that you would outlive all your friends.
DATA: I expected to make new friends.
LAFORGE: True.
DATA: And then to outlive them as well.
LAFORGE: Now that you know that you might not?
DATA: It provides a sense of completion to my future. In a way, I am not that different from anyone else. I can now look forward to death.
LAFORGE: I never thought of it that way.
DATA: One might also conclude that it brings me one step closer to being human. I am mortal.