The Original 1701 Design

[Dukhat]

The reason for the success of the original design is that it isn't an example of a 1960s design, but it is a good example of a utilitarian design. And this arose from both Roddenberry's instructions of what not to include and Jefferies' own design sensibilities. Jefferies was willing to apply what most people since haven't... essentially, less is more.

This is exactly what Trek production designers these days simply don't seem to understand. Take those DSC season 1 Starfleet ships for example, including the Discoprise. Every one of them is way more over-designed and over-detailed than they needed to be. Because they were designed by someone who feels the need to do that.

 

[HotRod]

This is exactly what Trek production designers these days simply don't seem to understand. Take those DSC season 1 Starfleet ships for example, including the Discoprise. Every one of them is way more over-designed and over-detailed than they needed to be. Because they were designed by someone who feels the need to do that.

If you look at the NX-01 as the basis for Starship design and not the TOS Enterprise, the Discovery ships, including the "Discoprise," make much more sense.

As much as I love the TOS Enterprise, at this point, she's definitely the "odd girl out." It seems cleat that the NX-01 has been retroactively made the basis for all ships that came after her.

 

[Dukhat]

If you look at the NX-01 as the basis for Starship design and not the TOS Enterprise, the Discovery ships, including the "Discoprise," make much more sense.

The NX-01 was a design that was a century old by the time of DSC. There should have been no design influence at all by this time, other than that ships have saucers and nacelles. And furthermore, most of the season 1 DSC ships looked like they'd have been right at home post-TUC/pre-TNG, rather than ten years before TOS.

As much as I love the TOS Enterprise, at this point, she's definitely the "odd girl out." It seems cleat that the NX-01 has been retroactively made the basis for all ships that came after her.

Well, that's clearly true for the Discoprise, as it looks far more like it took design cues from the NX class than it did from the TOS Enterprise.

My point is that it didn't have to be that way. The show's designers could have made a much simpler design that still tributed the TOS version far more than the Discoprise does, and still have it look more realistic for a 2020's viewing audience. Here's an example:

https://forums.scifi-meshes.com/dis...nstitution-reboot-gallery-model-now-available

In my opinion, this is a far better design than what Eaves came up with. Although even this version still has more surface detail than is actually needed, but it still harkens back to the TOS version while still being believable as future technology.

 

[HotRod]

The NX-01 was a design that was a century old by the time of DSC. There should have been no design influence at all by this time, other than that ships have saucers and nacelles.

And yet we have examples such as this:

Two designs that are well over 100 years apart. Clearly Starfleet is susceptible to nostalgia.

And furthermore, most of the season 1 DSC ships looked like they'd have been right at home post-TUC/pre-TNG, rather than ten years before TOS.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. If you look closely enough, there's an awful lot of NX-01 in those designs.

In my opinion, this is a far better design than what Eaves came up with. Although even this version still has more surface detail than is actually needed, but it still harkens back to the TOS version while still being believable as future technology.

I find that design rather dull, IMO. I much prefer what they did with the Discoprise. Not only is she beautiful, but it slots in pretty much perfectly between the NX-01 and the Constitution refit.

But that's me.

 

[Dukhat]

And yet we have examples such as this:

Two designs that are well over 100 years apart. Clearly Starfleet is susceptible to nostalgia.

And the latter of which looks completely anachronistic to the time period, for no real good reason whatsoever.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. If you look closely enough, there's an awful lot of NX-01 in those designs.

The Engle class, definitely. All the others look like they were built at varying points in the time period between TUC and TNG. Heck, the Cardenas class could have been one of the FC ships.

I find that design rather dull, IMO. I much prefer what they did with the Discoprise. Not only is she beautiful, but it slots in pretty much perfectly between the NX-01 and the Constitution refit.

But that's me.

You’re entitled to your opinion about the design attributes of both the Discoprise and the ship I linked to. My opinion is that the Discoprise is boring and dull, just like how you say you feel about that Sci-fi Mesh ship. And that’s fine; you like what you like and I like what I like. I just find that design to be far more of a realistic tribute to the TOS version than Eaves’s design.

 

[HotRod]

The Engle class, definitely.

I was always rather partial to the Malachowski, myself.

Cardenas class could have been one of the FC ships.

I'll give you that one.

 

[Ronald Held]

Do not understand why any NX-01 design elements would be in a constitution associated vessel.

 

[HotRod]

Do not understand why any NX-01 design elements would be in a constitution associated vessel.

Why not? For all we know, the Constitution is a direct evolution of the NX design.

 

[fireproof78]

Why not? For all we know, the Constitution is a direct evolution of the NX design.

Indeed, yes.

Regardless of the approach, that is the current timeline and design lineage which means we have to work within it, or reject it as such. To me, the NX-01 to the USS KELVIN and the ships from the "Battle of Binary Stars" all look like a clear through line together. Now, TOS stands out, both good and ill, and that's OK too because from a BTS sense GR wanted to distance from the TOS aesthetic, and hence we got TMP.

None of this strikes me as odd, or trying to replace anything. In universe, it's ship designers calling to mind historical tradition and designs as they want, and out of universe it is artists enjoying getting to play with familiar elements.

How good they are is a wonderful exploration of diversity of opinion.

 

[Dukhat]

The only similar elements I see between the Kelvin timeline ships and the Discoverse ships are the producers’ decision to make them outlandishly large.

 

[HotRod]

The only similar elements I see between the Kelvin timeline ships and the Discoverse ships are the producers’ decision to make them outlandishly large.

There's similarities all over the place. The weapon ports on the Walker class are extremely similar to those of The Kelvin. The Shepard class bridge module is pretty much lifted directly from The Kelvin.

 

[Dukhat]

There's similarities all over the place. The weapon ports on the Walker class are extremely similar to those of The Kelvin. The Shepard class bridge module is pretty much lifted directly from The Kelvin.

Sorry, I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.

 

[HotRod]

Sorry, I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.

The Bridge of the Shepard class compared to that of the Kelvin.

The weapon ports on the Shenzhou compared to those of The Kelvin.

 

[BillJ]

As much as I love the TOS Enterprise, at this point, she's definitely the "odd girl out."

Not in my world.

Two designs that are well over 100 years apart. Clearly Starfleet is susceptible to nostalgia.

What happens when creators have way too much money and not enough creativity. Overdesigned eyesore.

 

[Ithekro]

It is also possible that some of the Discovery era starships were influenced by other founding members of the Federation. Perhaps the rectangular warp nacelles are more of an Andorian influence over the Human cylindrical warp nacelles. The Walker-class' nacelles might be more Tellarian inspired. There are no obvious Starfleet ships with the ring nacelles like Vulcan ships, so no dice there.

 

[publiusr]

Kelvin had a Soviet submarine look...as designed. I actually don't mind the huge size---in the novels there were huge (Defender?) type ships described. Kelvin era ships are what I picture.

Discovery era ships are what you get if Utopia Planitia was on Mongo instead of Mars, and GM designers of the 20th Century thawed out to work

 

[HotRod]

I actually don't mind the huge size

Is the Kelvin herself really that big? I know the blu-ray special features put her at around 457m long, but unlike the 725m Enterprise, she never really came off as being that big.

Infact, both Eaglemoss and Moebius Models put her at about 315m, which looks rather good alongside the 442m Enterprise.

 

[publiusr]

There was a saucer the JJprise dodged that looked wider than standard Kelvin saucers, but that might have just been for dramatic effect.

 

[HotRod]

There was a saucer the JJprise dodged that looked wider than standard Kelvin saucers, but that might have just been for dramatic effect.

At the risk of stiring up a very old debate, I'd be willing to wager that saucer was made that big for dramatic effect. With a 725m Enterprise, a ship with that saucer would be pushing into the realm of Star Destroyer size....

Granted, it's not like we didn't get pretty much exactly that in the next film.

 

[Dukhat]

The Bridge of the Shepard class compared to that of the Kelvin.

I'm seeing two flat bridges with some windows in front. I wouldn't go so far as to say one bridge was lifted directly from the other, especially considering that there isn't a single other design element that one ship has over the other ship.

The weapon ports on the Shenzhou compared to those of The Kelvin.

I'll grant you that those black squares do look similar. But again, I see no other design attribute from the Walker class that looks remotely like anything from the Kelvin.