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How should the current shows fit with the First Order

Morpheus 02

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
So the shows we have been seeing lately are just after the Fall of the Empire, with the sequels having a fully formed First Order/ New Enpire.

We know that the First Order has been building for a long time, snatching Finn when he was a young child, and having so many he had no room to become an officer .

I mean we see glimpses, like in Ahsoka how contractors have been sending Imperial parts to non Alliance usesa, or Mandolorian which shows more subtle Empire loyalty in the "diversion" scenes.

But i am wondering how else the shows are setting this up... or really, what else need to be done???

What does this mean long term for the Mandalorian or Boba Fett?
 
I mean, they could always have events like are happening in Ahsoka, with different elements of the former Empire being folded in to the First Order, as well as children being kidnapped as soldiers, like Finn, and building up their resources.

I think there should be more establishing the Empire contracting, but another threat out along the Outer Rim. Hinting at a new power, but not knowing its size or ability.
 
If it wasn't for the middle one I'd like them to ignore the sequels and the First Order altogether. As that's not going to happen, I'd say further foreshadowing is inevitable.

It would be interesting if background details in future shows referenced more old decommissioned Star Destroyers and other kit being spirited away and a couple of small Imperial remnants discovering each other and squabbling/joining forces.
 
The real threat of Thrawn will probably weed out most of the Imperials that aren't super hardcore about the First Order. With Thrawn's defeat the New Republic (already massively passive) will believe it has ended the Imperial threat forever, and thus when the First Order starts to move in twenty years, no one will think of it as a threat (because who could possibly be worse than a strategic genius like Thrawn?) By then the old school New Order people have political power either in the New Republic, or the actual Imperial systems that stayed out of the Republic. The Core Worlds could care less either way.

Hux will maintain on mission. Rebuild and expand his power base in the Unknown Regions as instructed. Stay hidden until the New Republic is ready to be destroyed by Starkiller Base.
 
The general idea is that after Jakku, what was left of the Imperial military either surrendered, or fractured into many different factions and warlords, referred to collectively as "Imperial remnants". Basically anyone above the rank of Captain, all of the surviving Moffs (and one assumes *everyone* from ISB) that didn't defect or surrender are automatically declared wanted war criminals, with bounties and warrants out for their capture.
Most of these factions are small-time, tin pot wannabe dictators operating on the fringes. None of them being a particular threat on their own, and collectively too much hassle to go digging them out until they actively make a nuisance of themselves. Most seemingly have little more than a few medium sized frigates, corvettes & support ships, plus an ever dwindling supply of TIEs. If any of them have anything anywhere near as formidable as a destroyer, then they probably make damn sure they keep it out of sight of the New Republic, and that's even assuming they have the parts and personnel to keep the thing running. The last thing any of them wants is the full attention of the NRDF.

On the civilian side of things; what was left of the centralised government and bureaucracy (represented by Grand Vizier Mas Amedda, who was basically a puppet anyway) formally surrendered to the New Republic and signed the Galactic Concordance after the final battle of Jakku. That's where things like the rehabilitation programs, disarmament, and hardware reclamation projects come in. A small fraction of worlds remained stubbornly (and after Cinder; bafflingly) loyal to Imperial rule and end up becoming rogue states, which are easily isolated, and pose little threat without the Imperial fleet to back them up.

How the First Order fits into all of this is that they're what eventually became one of those military factions that split away from the rest. Specifically the ones selected by Palpatine to survive Operation Cinder; the true hardliner fanatics, bordering on cultists. They all took off into the Unknown Regions with a fair amount of hardware at Jakku, leaving the rest behind to burn. Their main purpose seems to simply be a stateless military, there to mostly be used by Palpatine's clone as a pawn to neutralise and suppress the New Republic after the Starkiller decapitates it.

That's all still a generation down the line though. Right now it's about five-ish years after the formal surrender and there's still some remnants knocking about. Some laying very low, jealously hording their merger resources and territories, others operating as little more than pirates and raiders in outland regions and wild space. Most of the major ones (including the First Order To Be) are on the "Shadow Council" which ostensibly tries to coordinate between the factions while maintaining the outward appearance of a disorganised rabble, but really seems to spend as much time and energy on actual in-fighting as anything else.

That's the real threat Thrawn represents; he could finally unite the bickering renmants and turn them back into an effective force with sane leadership and start seriously undermining the New Republic. Of course he likely doesn't know Palpatine's insane clone is pulling some of these strings, and won't take too kindly to someone co-opting his plans, but I wouldn't be shocked if Thrawn recognises his hand in some of what's going on. How that would play out is rather interesting in and of itself.
 
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How the First Order fits into all of this is that they're what eventually became one of those military factions that split away from the rest.

There’s also the public, political arm of the First Order that we saw secede from the New Republic in “Bloodline.” There was definitely coordinated with the military faction behind the scenes, but there were also people in the political movement who were utterly ignorant that they were basically a cover-story to hide the reemergence of the Imperial military.
 
There’s also the public, political arm of the First Order that we saw secede from the New Republic in “Bloodline.” There was definitely coordinated with the military faction behind the scenes, but there were also people in the political movement who were utterly ignorant that they were basically a cover-story to hide the reemergence of the Imperial military.
I've always been a little unclear on that point. My impression from the book is that by that point there was a faction within the NR itself that had become nostalgic for authoritarianism, and this became aligned with the First Order, which was both a separate thing and fairly new on the scene. They then left the New Republic and be came a sort of defacto public/political face for the FO.

There may be some overlap here between the old hardline holdouts that may have joined begrudgingly, and worlds that either due to internal political shifts or legitimate grievances had genuinely tired of the NR's ineffectual bureaucratic puttering, but I'm not exactly sure. It's never been fully explained to my satisfaction where the lines were supposed to be in that whole situation.

Either way, it's something that isn't likely to be overt for another few decades. That said, Xiono's behaviour and attitude is not inconsistent with a person who by sheer chance just happens to be away from home when the First Order vaporises it. He could be a mole, or just another greedy politician on someone's payroll. Probably the latter since that whole bit about him not being a part of the war certainly makes him sound like the pragmatically self-interested sort.
 
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I imagine as we get closer to the Rey movie, they might actually go back and start doing sequel era stuff to fill in those gaps that don't quite make sense. The Mando era is working on some of it, but with Thrawn and the like, this seems more about the last real attempt to rebuild the Empire as it was, and after that fails we have a two-decade gap until the First Order's rise and fall (thanks to Palpatine's return driving the Galactic narrative into removing him at all costs). With the Rey film supposedly set over a decade after those events, it would be prime time to do a Clone Wars/Rebels like show around the entire era, rather than just Resistance, which seems to have gotten bogged down by the rapid restructuring of the sequel trilogy and the basically one-year rebellion against the First Order.

Allowing a new cartoon to be a streaming platform show rather than limited by a "kids show" network only frame might help the story telling. Mind you The Clones Wars got dark as it went along (a bunch of beheadings), and in Rebels, the stormtroopers get straight up shot and spaced. Bad Batch has a lot more stun setting used, but that also narratively makes sense. Clone Force 99 doesn't want to kill their "brothers". But when they get to TK Stormtroopers? Stun setting off. It still doesn't shy away from going dark when it needs too. The Sequels, once Disney/Lucasfilm decide to move forward again, could benefit from a show that can work the existing framework into new tales and give the audience a better perspective of the First Order and New Republic from around "Bloodlines" until after the fall of the Sith Eternal.
 
Thrawn would recognize Palpatine's hand. That might be what ends up happening and getting Thrawn killed. Old Sheev wanting to keep his tracks covered. Rey won't be born for another few years. Starkiller Base is not ready. He's already working on his massive fleet of planet-killer Star Destroyers (he was working on that before Endor). We don't even know if Palpatine's clone body has been fully inhabited yet. Hux seems very interested in cloning technology, yet he is just a few years away from going all in on the kidnapping children for Stormtroopers project.

The Thrawn angle will make this era very interesting, but its the fallout from this era that will lead to the First Order.
 
Thrawn would recognize Palpatine's hand. That might be what ends up happening and getting Thrawn killed. Old Sheev wanting to keep his tracks covered. Rey won't be born for another few years. Starkiller Base is not ready. He's already working on his massive fleet of planet-killer Star Destroyers (he was working on that before Endor). We don't even know if Palpatine's clone body has been fully inhabited yet. Hux seems very interested in cloning technology, yet he is just a few years away from going all in on the kidnapping children for Stormtroopers project.

The Thrawn angle will make this era very interesting, but its the fallout from this era that will lead to the First Order.
I'm not sure having Thrawn just secretly offed by the crazed shut-in zombie clone because he's about to figure out the plot to the sequel trilogy would be the best way to deal with that character. In the original novel trilogy his downfall was due to hubris, and I think that should still hold true. Also the protagonists ought to probably have something to do with facilitating that end.
 
Well, the guy who killed him in "Legends" is already dead, but I suppose that's nothing a little Nightsister magic can't fix... :shrug:
 
In the old EU, Thrawn did die that way, though his campaign was limited by Palpatine not releasing resources to Thrawn's Campaign. All that equipment and manpower of the Dark Empire would have served Thrawn extremely well in the war against the New Republic. Thrawn could probably have defeated the New Republic in total, or at least retaken the majority of the galaxy if he had access to even just the fleet assets (no need for the super weapons). Even without it, Thrawn managed to retake a huge part of the galaxy from the New Republic, and paved the way for the rest of the Empire to retake part of the Core Worlds...even if it was only for a limited time before Palpatine's problems doomed the Empire to fall again.
 
In the original novel trilogy his downfall was due to hubris
Was it? The Noghri had served him faithfully for years, and, not knowing about Leia's parentage, he had no reason to believe they wouldn't continue to do so - or, at least, that if they really would turn on him, for failing to live up to his promises, he wouldn't see it coming. As for the battle at Bilbringi, it wasn't going great for him, but it wasn't going disastrously, either.

Can't I just pretend that the First Order and the Sequel movies don't exist?
As someone whose core head canon is the OT and the Thrawn Trilogy, and most certainly not the PT or ST, I sympathize, but the franchise is not going to go along with that tack anytime soon, if ever.
 
It doesn't have to be in order for me to just watch the OT.

There's no requirement to watch, much less enjoy, any, much less all of Star Wars.

Fans demand too much.
 
Was it? The Noghri had served him faithfully for years, and, not knowing about Leia's parentage, he had no reason to believe they wouldn't continue to do so - or, at least, that if they really would turn on him, for failing to live up to his promises, he wouldn't see it coming. As for the battle at Bilbringi, it wasn't going great for him, but it wasn't going disastrously, either.
Yup. He took the Noghri's loyalty for granted. Assumed they'd never figure out the Empire's betrayal. He was wrong. That's hubris; which I might add was also Palpatine's downfall as Luke explicitly pointed out, and for largely the same reason. Only there, he took Vader's submission for granted.
 
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