He's Irish, he was always like that
Disagree. He was pretty amiable on the Enterprise, even cheery. Like when he told Picard that he also used to build ships in bottles or sympathising with Reg about his fear of transporting.
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- Thread starter Amasov
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Disagree. He was pretty amiable on the Enterprise, even cheery. Like when he told Picard that he also used to build ships in bottles or sympathising with Reg about his fear of transporting.
By the time of "EMISSARY", it still was not widely known just how much of a control the Borg have on assimilated people.
Additionally, his wife was killed in the attack led by Locutus. Picard, despite the audience knowing he had no choice, was still the face of Sisko's greatest loss in his life.
Especially considering we as the audience know just how grief stricken he was for years, Sisko was definitely better tempered than he frankly should have been.
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I also remember him being amiably racist about Cardassians in "The Wounded" and cheerily storming off and getting exasperated with Data in "Data's Day", or just plain arguing with Ro in "Disaster". The episodes of TNG where we see him do something other than just operate the transporter console for thirty seconds are quite consistent with the O'Brien we see more of in DS9. Of course he's not grumpy or moody all the time. Of course he can be cheerful and professional. But he can also be a rude, mean, sullen sod with a quick temper. As can we all, hence his "everyman" appeal.
It was decidedly racist, and he felt bed about it, but O'Brien's racism in "The Wounded" is more pragmatic. "I don't hate you. I hate what I became because of you." I'm surprised it was never readdressed once he moved over to DS9, what with all the Cardassians that showed up on that show.
“I never met anyone with more drive, determination or more courage than Jean-Luc Picard. There is no way in hell that he would assist the Borg.”
“You don't know, Robert. You don't know. They took everything I was. They used me to kill and to destroy, and I couldn't stop them. I should have been able to stop them! I tried. I tried so hard, but I wasn't strong enough. I wasn't good enough.”
I think it was widely known enough for Picard to be returned pretty much immediately to active service.
It still boggles my mind that so many people saw a man who was still mourning the death of his wife speak curtly to Picard and just couldn't handle it.
...And then also ignored the fact that Sisko had finally started healing and moving past it by the end of the episode, and Picard did not hold it against him.
...And then also ignored the fact that Sisko had finally started healing and moving past it by the end of the episode, and Picard did not hold it against him.
Picard was still the face of the Borg during Wolf 359. Logically, Sisko knows he was forced. But grief and loss as deep as what he experienced... you can't expect someone to be happy to see the person responsible for their wife's death and robbing his son of his mother.
At that point, Picard was the only ex-assimilatee known to the Federation. And it's not as if Picard was the type to write a book about his experiences, or to get himself invited to all kinds of 24th equivalents of our talkshows to be interviewed about what it exactly was like being assimilated.
Yes, probably he was subjected to extensive questioning by Federation experts about the incident, trying to learn as much as possible about the Borg as possible, and to evaluate whether Picard was fit for duty, but that's still very different from going public with it and it wouldn't have meant a random officer like Sisko would have known much about it.
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Sisko pointedly mentions that he met Picard on the Saratoga. But he never says "You killed my wife." It's one sentence and he moves on.
He's unhappy with life and he's unhappy with Starfleet. And he's unhappy with the assignment. Picard represents at least two of those. I don't think he would be any more friendly with Riker.
So it wasn't just that Picard had been Locutus. Although that must have been shocking to take.
He's unhappy with life and he's unhappy with Starfleet. And he's unhappy with the assignment. Picard represents at least two of those. I don't think he would be any more friendly with Riker.
So it wasn't just that Picard had been Locutus. Although that must have been shocking to take.
Now Captain Liam Shaw? HE was a lot more direct.
Arguably, if O’Brien is considered racist against Cardassians, then so is Kira, since she shows just as much bias towards the Cardassians as he does (e.g., even after “Duet,” she tells a Cardassian civilian that had been maimed during one of her terrorist attacks that they all had it coming and were equally guilty).
It’s just the audience tends to see Kira’s prejudice as more justified than O’Brien’s, even though both had survived traumas that caused their biases. Also, I think the audience tends to have its own bias about the human characters, and wants to think they should be “better” than that, where a “frontier” species like the Bajorans are probably still not as evolved as 24th century humans.
If it's not apart of the official canon, then it must be a part of the official canon!
("apart" means "separate from," the exact opposite of "a part" of.)
Kira's prejudice is more justified than O'Brien's. The Cardassians who traumatized her were invaders on her homeworld. Yes, even the civilians were, by their very presence there, supporting and legitimizing the occupation. Plus, Kira was just a little kid when the Cardassians started ruining her life. And she had no safe haven to retreat to.
O'Brien was a volunteer soldier fighting a war and while I'm sure Starfleet tactics were much more humane than the Cardassians', he was trying to kill them while they were trying to kill him. And he was fighting on the frontier knowing he had the possibility of rotating out of the fighting for a while.
O'Brien was an explorer who was witness to a massacre, which included the murder of the family of his commanding officer. If we were the witnesses to a massacre that included the murder of innocent women and children, I think that might leave some lasting scars. Maybe not as deep as what Kira experienced, but still enough to cause damage.
What a silly, silly thing to type.
No Captain Pike cooked breakfast for them....
I'm not saying otherwise. Both of them had real damage. Both of them had real prejudice, in the sense that neither was able to just apply that blame to the specific Cardassians responsible for their damage (and their superiors/enablers).
But Kira's clearly is far more justifiable than O'Brien, none-the-less. We're talking about her entire world in constant jeopardy for her entire life. The difference between them is clear and palpable and not something that fans are just making up just because we like Kira better.
To everyone who says Discovery is a complete failure and not responsible for Trek's current era of shows, here's a Paramount+ promo that literally and repeatedly says Picard and SNW wouldn't exist if not for Discovery.
You left out the quote. O'Brien states that he blames the Cardassians present at the time, and all Cardassians by association, for his having to kill to defend the Federation colony, something he had never wanted to do."Pragmatic racism"?
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