News Foundation Adaptation Series Officially Ordered by Apple
- Thread starter JD
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Damn, I believe you're correct. I've heard so many people repeat this "factoid" that I integrated it into my memory even though I've read the original trilogy twice and listened to the audiobooks twice. Of course, if planets on the periphery are having to use fossil fuels, it does confirm that their biospheres are extremely old and therefore alien - Earth having been completely forgotten about. It doesn't seem at all likely that mankind would have taken coal and oil to the stars in sufficiently vast quantities to last beyond the memory of mankind's original home being lost. While oil could be synthesised as biofuel, it doesn't make any sense to synthesise coal. The DNA sequencing technologies we have now would quickly reveal humans did not originate on any of the planets in the Empire that have their own biological systems. Obviously, none of that was foreseen by Asimov as Watson and Crick didn't work out the structure of DNA and its significance until 1953 and sequencing and other derived techniques didn't come along for at least another twenty years.
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I just saw the latest episode. It was fairly ok for me.
That Dominion princess is more of a suitable match for Dawn than Day of you ask me. She and Dawn seem to be around the same age and may have similar interests. Hopefully, Day realizes that and allows those two to get married to each other. If not, I suspect tensions will develop between Day and Dawn over the princess.
I actually like the imperial commander and his first officer. They are men trying to save a dying empire. They are loyal and will do their imperial duty. I also respect the old patrician who remained loyal to the empire despite the decline and retreat.
Because of these characters, i have decided that my sympathies lies with the failing Imperium.
Hari Seldon can keep at his voodoo mathematics while the drunk, the horny cleric chick and the conman can go about their dumb adventures to undermine the Empire.
That Dominion princess is more of a suitable match for Dawn than Day of you ask me. She and Dawn seem to be around the same age and may have similar interests. Hopefully, Day realizes that and allows those two to get married to each other. If not, I suspect tensions will develop between Day and Dawn over the princess.
I actually like the imperial commander and his first officer. They are men trying to save a dying empire. They are loyal and will do their imperial duty. I also respect the old patrician who remained loyal to the empire despite the decline and retreat.
Because of these characters, i have decided that my sympathies lies with the failing Imperium.
Hari Seldon can keep at his voodoo mathematics while the drunk, the horny cleric chick and the conman can go about their dumb adventures to undermine the Empire.
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I'm enjoying season two a lot more than season one. I've given up trying to remember how any of this lines up with the books, it's clearly its own thing. I'm enjoying the space adventure vibe of all the scenes with the monks and Hober. Brother Constant is great, instantly a better character than Gaal and Salvor (who I struggled with in season one.) Lee Pace continues to be a delight and I'm liking the gay general and his husband too. I noticed Jane Espenson is on the writing staff now which may explain the somewhat new feel of the show.
A lot of it's still nonsense, mainly scenes with Hari, Gaal and Salvor together (though they've at least been a bit more fun than season one.) Giving Gaal the ability to jump her consciousness into the future makes psychohistory obsolete, surely.
A lot of it's still nonsense, mainly scenes with Hari, Gaal and Salvor together (though they've at least been a bit more fun than season one.) Giving Gaal the ability to jump her consciousness into the future makes psychohistory obsolete, surely.
The entire concept of Psychohistory doesn't hold up when you look at it too closely, especially in the show. Who wants to bet that Terminus Seldon sent Hober Mallow to meet up with Gaal and Salvor?
Really liked the priests in this one, both her and her horniness towards Hober ( understandable
) and the crankiness and faith of the older one, which virtual Seldon obliterated in the construct by revealing that the faith he so believed in was nothing more than a planned phase and would become obsolete soon. I felt a bit sad when he looked back at virtual Seldon while his whole world view was shattered and he left for his mission to Trantor.
Bonus points for the not so thinly veiled sarcasm towards the current Terminus Warden virtual Seldon had and him not noticing at all, it was a nice suit after all.
Really liked the priests in this one, both her and her horniness towards Hober ( understandable
) and the crankiness and faith of the older one, which virtual Seldon obliterated in the construct by revealing that the faith he so believed in was nothing more than a planned phase and would become obsolete soon. I felt a bit sad when he looked back at virtual Seldon while his whole world view was shattered and he left for his mission to Trantor.Bonus points for the not so thinly veiled sarcasm towards the current Terminus Warden virtual Seldon had and him not noticing at all, it was a nice suit after all.
Given the way Dr. Seldon talked about the warden he killed, maybe he mostly just accepted the mayor being there as an impartial witness, even though he was surplus to his requirements for that specific discussion. It’s also a little troubling that he began his explanation for killing the warden with “You gotta kill somebody, or people don’t take you seriously,” and only later followed up with, “Also, he was clearly going to start making things up and saying they came from me to aggrandize himself.” Troubling to think he might’ve done that to someone who didn’t have it coming on any level.
(On the podcast, Goyer mentioned the behind-the-scenes convention is that the version that lives in the Vault on Terminus is “Dr. Seldon,” and the version who is traveling with Gael and Salvor is “Hari.”)
(On the podcast, Goyer mentioned the behind-the-scenes convention is that the version that lives in the Vault on Terminus is “Dr. Seldon,” and the version who is traveling with Gael and Salvor is “Hari.”)
Terminus Seldon aka Dr. Seldon is following Psychohistory and as we know individuals don't ( shouldn't) matter in the grand scheme, so what's one incinerated Warden when you look at the big picture? Sounds cruel but that's what i got from that scene and others - Seldon sometimes really comes off cold but it's understandable when you know why.
i wonder if we will get a Hari vs. Seldon showdown eventually. Or are they playing around with time where Dr. Seldon is the result of Hari's adventures?
The monks really feel like dad and daughter, and they really ought to have such a relationship in a future project.
Day is technically THE (one and only) Emperor, with Dusk and Dawn as buffers with roles to play, but as technically the only actual ruler is Day.
So that's why the Princess has to marry Day. But she is wiser than Dawn, and is using his youth against him. (And the Courestan seems to be playing Dusk in her own fashion... and note that Cleon seems to like younger women anyway).
The monks really feel like dad and daughter, and they really ought to have such a relationship in a future project.
My wife was saying the same thing... but i think that is kind of the point... the Princess and her Courtesan is actually playing all 3 of them. Now, did i hear correctly that the Courtesan actually has kept her memories? If so, all of that intel is being used to see how to play Dawn, Day and Dusk against each other.
Day is technically THE (one and only) Emperor, with Dusk and Dawn as buffers with roles to play, but as technically the only actual ruler is Day.
So that's why the Princess has to marry Day. But she is wiser than Dawn, and is using his youth against him. (And the Courestan seems to be playing Dusk in her own fashion... and note that Cleon seems to like younger women anyway).
I'm enjoying the season more as it goes on. Mallow, Constant, Poly and the new General character are far more fun to be around than Hardin and Dornick. I quite like Hardin, but gosh, Dornick grated on me last season and she's not letting up here.
Anything to do with the genetic dynasty continues to delight. I've always loved that whole plot thread.
Anything to do with the genetic dynasty continues to delight. I've always loved that whole plot thread.
Season one derailed somewhat with the badly executed Invictus plotline but overall it wasn't terrible. I think this season is actually an improvement on season one - if still a million parsecs away from the original trilogy. Keeping different variants of Seldon around will likely have consequences down the line - I assume they will end up as antagonists to each other.
The political intrigue on Trantor is getting more interesting for me. Dominion was right to suspect that both Day and Demerzel were involved in her family's murder. I wonder what the Dominion are going to do with the information about Demerzel being a robot. Let's wait and see. Dusk and Dawn are getting suspicious about their memories. I suspect Demerzel as only she has the access and longevity to alter the memories of so many Cleons over the decades.
Hari Seldon, Salvor Hardin, Gaal Dornick do have a slower story line compared to the events on Trantor and Terminus but now it is seemed to be picking up with the introduction of Tellem Bond. Is she linked to the Mule ? She is telepathic just like the mule. Perhaps she is or she is not linked to him but like the mule, she is certainly against the Second Foundation for some reason. Maybe she fears the amount of knowledge that the non telepathic folks will acquire with a Second Foundation.
Hari Seldon, Salvor Hardin, Gaal Dornick do have a slower story line compared to the events on Trantor and Terminus but now it is seemed to be picking up with the introduction of Tellem Bond. Is she linked to the Mule ? She is telepathic just like the mule. Perhaps she is or she is not linked to him but like the mule, she is certainly against the Second Foundation for some reason. Maybe she fears the amount of knowledge that the non telepathic folks will acquire with a Second Foundation.
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The Mule in the original trilogy was portrayed as just a random mutation unforeseeable by psychohistory and not part of a wider conspiracy. I'm not going to speculate where the show is going with this new element but a group of telepaths feeling threatened by mundanes or wanting to control them seems like the obvious direction.
I love that Day didn't have a clue what to do in bed because he's used to doing it with a robot.
It seemed like huge chunks of the memories of the clones has been erased - but by whom and why? Is Demerzel responsible, and is she Second Foundation? There was a clue dropped that the woman Kalle on Oona's World is probably a robot.
Well, in the books Demerzel or rather R. Daneel Olivaw is a robot who's taken it upon himself ( itself?) to guide humanity by following his self developed zeroth robotic law - he can't harm humanity or due to inaction cause humanity to be harmed - and inspiring psychohistory to be developed and used. So if the show follows this template, and judging from interviews and reading between the lines it seems that is the long term plan for the entire show, it could well be that Demerzel is at least controlling and taking measures that the Second Foundation happens.
I love how the show confuses me and makes all my memories from the books worthless
It's fascinating to see how the Empire is slowly unraveling over the course of the show - the outer reaches declaring independence, Empire withdrawing from planets, Day being assaulted in his inner sanctum and now the seeds if mistrust are blooming within the Cleon dynasty itself. I'm really invested to see what happens there as this element of the show is perhaps even more interesting to me than the Foundation plot itself.
It was obvious that most people, including me, thought that Seldon & Co met the core of the Second Foundation until the twist at the end. It's still possible to happen since we don't know why she wants to destroy the Prime Radiant and how she knows about the Second Foundation and what her beef with it is but i guess we'll find out. Small possible logic hole - why doesn't she know where it is? She could read Dornick like an open book and she knows where she hid it.
Although Demerzel might be many thousands of years old, the show might not have rights to use names from Asimov's robot series, the original or amended laws of robotics or even the term "positronic brain". I believe Gene Roddenberry asked permission from Asimov to use the latter in relation to Data in TNG. I don't mind so much as long as there really is a plan for the show and they're not just making "cool" stuff up that's going to paint them into a corner like happened with nuBSG.
I just read about this recently - the rights for Asimov's Robot concepts and related issues lie with Fox but Goyer contacted the head of Fox and was allowed to use it in a limited capacity, so i fully expect this to pop up anytime but possibly in a season finale as a huge twist ( could be some time off since it upends the entire story, at least for me).
I agree about having a long term plan and your example but i think producers have learned from the past mistakes such as nuBSG and Lost and pre-plan their shows better, the only variable that remains is if they will get the time to tell their story as planned or will the show be cancelled before. It's a hard act, especially for expensive shows such as this and i hope they get the time and don't have to do a Babylon 5 and be janked around by the studio at the last minute.
I wonder if the show has the rights to depict the Eternals and their manipulation of timelines. They're the ones steering everything really if one accepts Asimov's later merging of his various book series.
Wouldn't her actions when Empire wiped out Dominion's family contradict that?
The thing is that Asimov's Robotic Laws are quite malleable, especially the Zeroth Law that trumps all others and lets robots kill humans if it would save humanity from harm, e.g. a robot with history knowledge and time travel capability would have no problem killing Hitler. From my understanding humanity is such a wide term that you can basically justify anything and it could be considered a cop out if the robot convinces itself that everything it does including killing is ultimately for the good of humanity. However in the books the robot who actually developed the idea of the zeroth law couldn't reconcile it with the other 3 laws and basically self destructed ( but not before instructing Demerzel/Olivaw how to rewire its brain to be able to handle the zeroth law).
As i already said some things Asimov wrote do not hold up well under close scrutiny but it's still fun to talk about. I mean the initial first law of Robotics state that a robot can't harm a human being or through inaction cause a human being to be harmed - what if it witnesses a human harming another human and the only way to stop the assaulter would be to harm him? What does the robot do?
