I don't care what "side" you're on. The truth exists independently of "sides" or ideologies or agendas.
Okay, then could you try
not following Trek_God_1's example and instead arguing without using fundamentally insulting language? Thanks.
Falsifying or twisting the facts to support your case undermines the legitimacy of the case,
Good thing I didn't do that! Jesus.
I'm not addressing your overall argument.
I know. That's why I said, "Everyone's getting all wrapped up in whether or not Superman killed Zod in
Superman II. But that doesn't matter per se. My point in bringing that up was that what matters is context and framing." Because I was trying to redirect the conversation to my overall argument rather than the side-tangent of Zod's fate in
Superman II.
First off, as Supervisor 194 pointed out this morning, there is no "chasm," just a fall into mist. The chasm is an assumption you're making.
We literally never hear the bodies hit either a floor or water. The only way that can happen is if there's a chasm beneath the platforms upon which everyone was standing.
Second, this is a children's movie based on a comic book character. As I've been saying, it's been commonplace since the late 1930s for comic-book villains to survive seemingly fatal falls and come back a few issues later.
Yes, that is a
comic book convention. But in
film, the dramatic convention for many decades before and after was that the hero would kill the villain or that the villain would otherwise die;
Superman: The Movie was an outlier for having Lex Luthor survive to the end.
It's also bizarre, as I've pointed out already, to apply standards of realism to a movie where the powerless Clark walks through the Arctic twice and doesn't freeze to death. If you can buy Clark and Lois surviving that, it's utterly contradictory to refuse to buy Zod et al. surviving an ambiguous drop into mist.
It never even
occurred to me that Zod and the others weren't killed by their fall. It didn't even occur to me that this was in question.
And yeah,
Superman II is inconsistent in terms of what will or will not kill somebody because it's a film that uses a certain amount of "cartoon logic." But there's literally no indication whatsoever in the film that Zod et al survived, and it is, again, a convention of action films that the villain dies.
And again, the deleted scenes
Are not part of the movie and therefore are no more authoritative in terms of establishing what happens within the text of the film than a scene from
Smallville or
Superman: The Animated Series.
