All Janeway's fault?

[Guy Gardener]

I just realized that with streaming they don’t really have to worry about a set run time.

They still have to worry about blurays and international release on foreign terrestrial TV.

Episodes of stranger things and Game of thrones where over two hours long each, without ads, which would have been cut and edited into 40 minute blocks, like what happened to the original animated Transformer movie and the Futurama movies, but into 20 minute blocks to match the rest of the syndication package.

 

[Dukhat]

It's very obvious when he's making a joke.

Apparently not.

He was making a joke. Do you have a hard time recognizing humour?

No offense, but you tend to have that same problem.

Her revenge was against the entire Federation, not just Picard. She was never targeting just Picard, only his son for capture because of reasons explained in the show.

That still does not make it clear on screen that what happened to her was because of Admiral Janeway's pathogen.

 

[Lord Exor]

It was the neurolytic pathogen. It's so patently obvious that I'm legitimately astonished we're even having this argument. Like seriously? Why else do you think the Borg went dark for 20 years? They referenced the Borg being crippled last season, again obviously because of the virus. AND Prodigy confirms this as well.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was the neurolytic pathogen. It's so patently obvious that I'm legitimately astonished we're even having this argument. Like seriously?

Pick one...

1. This is the Queen's first opportunity to exact revenge, 23 years later?

2. The Queen passed up thousands of opportunities to exact revenge, for 23 years, until she came up with the best plan, and this is it, and this is what she did?

3. The Queen has launch thousands of attacks and hatched hundreds of devilish plots over the last 23 years and this is just the most recent gambit to destroy the Federation?

4. The Queen came up with a super cool revenge plan that from start to finish would take her 23 years to play out and destroy the Federation?

 

[Lord Exor]

I'm sure she wouldn't be reduced to one cube, cannibalizing her last remaining drones to maintain a grotesque and aged body if any of your outlined options were a possibility. And they're not.

 

[Dukhat]

It was the neurolytic pathogen. It's so patently obvious that I'm legitimately astonished we're even having this argument.

It's only obvious if the viewer had seen the series finale of VOY, 22 years ago. Which is why having the scriptwriter take all of ten seconds to write a line explaining why the Queen looks like she does instead of Matalas making an offline comment on twitter about it that 95% of the audience will never read might have been the better way to go.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm sure she wouldn't be reduced to one cube, cannibalizing her last remaining drones to maintain a grotesque and aged body if any of your outlined options were a possibility. And they're not.

Janeway destroyed the Borg in Endgame,

The Queen should not have even one Cube, and the Queen herself should be Thanos-Dust.

If you have a 5th option that fits canon, please share, otherwise "pick one".

 

[Guy Gardener]

In the millennium books, they figured out if they send star ship far enough back in time, behind enemy lines, 20 thousand years, then put the crew into stasis, then put the ship on Standby and set an alarm clock for 20 thousand years and one day, that they can get a ship where it needs to be, in the baddies blind-spot, without creating a divergent or alt timeline.

(I call bullshit. You do create a divergent timeline, it's just an identical timeline and although you now live in the brightest timeline, your home timeline has turned to shit and thinks that you are AWOL in the middle of some fracas where all seems lost.)

If the Borg Queen subscribes to this tactic, then it's one way that she could have got inside the great spot, without being killboxed by that big honking meteor cannon on Mars as they entered the Sol System.

 

[Lord Exor]

Janeway destroyed the Borg in Endgame,

The Queen should not have even one Cube, and the Queen herself should be Thanos-Dust.

If you have a 5th option that fits canon, please share, otherwise "pick one".

We see the Queen blow up with the Unicomplex and transwarp hub. There aren't any hints as to the fate of the Borg beyond that. The Queen has been destroyed before, so that in itself didn't mean she was gone for good, nor did it necessarily mean the Collective was wiped out.

We learned in Season 2 that it left the Borg hobbled, and in S3 we learned exactly what Endgame meant for the Collective. It was up in the air before that.

It's only obvious if the viewer had seen the series finale of VOY, 22 years ago. Which is why having the scriptwriter take all of ten seconds to write a line explaining why the Queen looks like she does instead of Matalas making an offline comment on twitter about it that 95% of the audience will never read might have been the better way to go.

How much of this season was predicated on familiarity with what came before? Most of it?

 

[Dukhat]

We see the Queen blow up with the Unicomplex and transwarp hub. There aren't any hints as to the fate of the Borg beyond that. The Queen has been destroyed before, so that in itself didn't mean she was gone for good, nor did it necessarily mean the Collective was wiped out.

We learned in Season 2 that it left the Borg hobbled, and in S3 we learned exactly what Endgame meant for the Collective. It was up in the air before that.


How much of this season was predicated on familiarity with what came before? Most of it?

Most of what was referenced was TNG movie and DS9 Dominion war information, all of which was recapped in dialogue by the TNG characters and the one guy from TNG who transitioned to DS9. The pathogen was not referenced at all, not even by the one character in PIC who was on VOY, Seven of Nine. So yeah, if the audience hadn’t seen that one episode 22 years ago, they would have had no idea what was going on with the Queen.

 

[Tuskin38]

Janeway destroyed the Borg in Endgame

No she didn't. She crippled them.

We see an Borg cube in Prodigy which was shut down because of Admiral Janeway's pathogen.

Plus the Sphere chasing Voyager adapted, so I'm sure others could of as well.

Speaking of Prodigy one of the writers, or was it the showrunner knew about Queen and her situation beforehand, because he was hinting at minor Prodigy connection before the episode aired, and confirmed after it was about Admiral Janeway crippling the Borg.

 

[Lord Exor]

I don't think it adapted, I think it just wasn't affected yet.

 

[Tuskin38]

I don't think it adapted, I think it just wasn't affected yet.

Oh you might be right, I misunderstood this line

QUEEN: I may have assimilated your pathogen, but I also assimilated your armour technology.

As meaning the pathogen had been adapted, but she probably meant infected via assimilation.

Though the sphere didn't explode with the Unicomplex, it blew up because of the Voyager firing torpedoes inside it.

 

[Lord Exor]

Why the Unicomplex exploded and not every Borg ship in their empire is a good question. That was the epicenter, and the pathogen may have taken 20 or so years to spread and whittle them down to what we see in S3. The Artifact seemed to be fine in 2380, with the implication being that there was still a Collective left for it to be severed from at the time.

 

[Ragitsu]

"There's wasn't exactly time to take a poll." My favorite Janeway line.

For some reason, I adore the way Ray Wise (i.e.,"Arturis") said "collective" to Seven of Nine.

"Coe-lective"