Predictions for Phase 2 of Star Trek

[Richard S. Ta]

...

You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Ever.

Your 'points' are just mad streams of drivel and nonsense.

I thought you had me on ignore anyway?

Or at least you said so last time you flounced off the forum for a few months and blacked out your avatar to make some kind of point.

 

[HotRod]

gibberish

There's alot more to putting a film in theaters then just the actual cost of production. Distribution and promotional is incredibly expensive. It's not uncommon for the cost of promoting a film to cost far more then the film itself. Nevermind putting it into thousands of theaters.

 

[Lord Garth]

If these movies were easy to get off the ground, they would've pressed on ahead without Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, and even JJ Abrams a long time ago. And that was before.

Things have changed with the film industry in 2023. Everything as we knew it for the last 15-20 years is ending. No one can really say what type of Star Trek film would work today until the cinematic landscape in general regains its bearings. It's too much in a state-of-flux right now.

 

[Dukhat]

2005: UPN cancelled ENT because of poor ratings and cost overruns to produce such an expensive show. UPN folded not long afterwards.

2009: JJ Abrams and Paramount Pictures release Star Trek ‘09, a highly successful feature film, followed by two more successful films. CBS sees that Star Trek still has marketable and profitable potential.

2017: CBS All Access is formed with their flagship show Star Trek: Discovery. A few years later they merge with Paramount and change to Paramount+ and start making more Trek series with the idea that there will never be a break in Trek shows on a year to year basis (i.e. one show ends for the season and another one starts up.)

Now: P+ ends PIC, cancels DSC and PRO, and announces lesser-cost-producing SFA and a Section 31 movie after a Section 31 series lay in development hell and overall streaming revenue goes down toilet. Then writers’ strike ensues, putting a halt to all current and future productions, and making previous announcements of SFA and S31 less likely to happen. All the while former PIC showrunner teases fandom about some pet project that has zero chance of being developed, which said showrunner even admits to, and yet fandom thinks it’s a done deal and a recipe for success in a dying streaming market.

Oh, and Paramount can’t seem to produce a new theatrical Trek film if their very lives depended on it.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Did I miss anything?

Nope. Everything seems to be in perfect order there.

If there was such a hunger for Star Trek films, any Star Trek films about any character, then there would constantly be several in production. Like Marvel movies.

As far as the cinema goes, Star Trek is just not that big of a deal. Even on TV it borders on being a niche interest while other genre shows leave it in the dust.

 

[Lord Garth]

Even on TV it borders on being a niche interest while other genre shows leave it in the dust.

I don't know about that last part. Was the audience for The Expanse or the new Lost In Space really that large?

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I don't know about that last part. Was the audience for The Expanse or the new Lost In Space really that large?

Stranger Things
Game of Thrones
House of the Dragon
The Mandalorian
Black Mirror

No Star Trek show of the 21st Century has entered the public consciousness in a similar way to these shows.

 

[Lord Garth]

Stranger Things
Game of Thrones
House of the Dragon
The Mandalorian
Black Mirror

No Star Trek show of the 21st Century has entered the public consciousness in a similar way to these shows.

No, no, no. Of course. I'm not denying that.

When you said genre shows, I was thinking space-based. The Mandalorian would qualify, but not the others.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

No, no, no. Of course. I'm not denying that.

When you said genre shows, I was thinking space-based. The Mandalorian would qualify, but not the others.

Genre like Fantasy/Sci-Fi. Maybe it’s my mistake? I thought the term ‘Genre Show’ covered both. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Let's all dial back the getting personal in here. Post, not poster.

 

[Lord Garth]

Stranger Things
Game of Thrones
House of the Dragon
The Mandalorian
Black Mirror

Black Mirror's really good. It's a solid show. Some really twisted stuff.

Game of Thrones, I've been meaning to see. Though I know the last season or two is supposed to be horrible, so I'm already mentally prepared for that. House of the Dragon... Feels like Game of Thrones is a prerequisite, but I might be wrong.

The Mandalorian is Star Wars. Not really my thing. Andor isn't on your list, but it sounds like the more grown-up of the two.

Stranger Things is an interesting case. I've seen some of it. The story is fine, but it didn't hook me. If I ever go back to it, I have to wonder if it's more because of the story or more because I get a kick out of how dead-accurate they got the '80s. It seriously looks like when I was a little kid. And the house reminds me of someone else's house I used to visit all the time.

Then Star Trek...
Love Discovery, love Picard, liked Prodigy, curious about Section 31, don't care about the rest that much. I could be totally wrong about Starfleet Academy but, as much as I like seeing the 32nd Century continue, I'm not feeling it. I'm not so sure about this reaching young people either. When I was in school, the last thing I wanted to do was go home, turn on the TV, and watch more about characters in school! The only time that ever worked for me was Welcome Back, Kotter.

 

[FederationHistorian]

You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Ever.

Stop projecting. Please.

I thought you had me on ignore anyway?

You are on ignore. But when I log off and come back and see you have written something that’s just completely wrong, I have to correct it. Sorry.

Or at least you said so last time you flounced off the forum for a few months and blacked out your avatar to make some kind of point.

My point being I had left and actually did not intent to return. I only returned for SNW. I might still leave anyways.

Whereas you, who posted how it was great to have me back literally days ago. Another disingenuous post from you, as usual.

Your posts are boring and elicit a big yawn from me now. I'd like to move on. Thanks.

There's alot more to putting a film in theaters then just the actual cost of production. Distribution and promotional is incredibly expensive. It's not uncommon for the cost of promoting a film to cost far more then the film itself. Nevermind putting it into thousands of theaters.

Which you would put in a business plan. Less fighting, more listening.

Now: P+ ends PIC, cancels DSC and PRO, and announces lesser-cost-producing SFA and a Section 31 movie after a Section 31 series lay in development hell and overall streaming revenue goes down toilet. Then writers’ strike ensues, putting a halt to all current and future productions, and making previous announcements of SFA and S31 less likely to happen. All the while former PIC showrunner teases fandom about some pet project that has zero chance of being developed, which said showrunner even admits to, and yet fandom thinks it’s a done deal and a recipe for success in a dying streaming market.

Which is really a consequence of the first season of DIS. If that season had the appeal of viewer as it did critics, Star Trek would be in a different place. DIS is in the public consciousness, but not in the positive way like TOS and TNG.

Paramount should have led with SNW first.

Oh, and Paramount can’t seem to produce a new theatrical Trek film if their very lives depended on it.

That's all on Paramount. They announce a film with no script and without talking to the cast. And as so inflexible that they won't even do a movie were there is only one or two characters in the entire film and its set in a single location.

 

[fireproof78]

There's alot more to putting a film in theaters then just the actual cost of production. Distribution and promotional is incredibly expensive. It's not uncommon for the cost of promoting a film to cost far more then the film itself. Nevermind putting it into thousands of theaters.

Regardless, the simple fact is the money is not there right now. Paramount is cutting back costs, not looking to spend more money on series than it absolutely has to. Putting a film in to the theaters right now costs a lot more money. It doesn't strike me as financially viable or in line with what is wanting to be done with Trek right now.

Honestly, if we get more Trek after the strikes are done will be a bigger surprise to me, much less a film in the theaters. Where is this money coming from?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Let's all dial back the getting personal in here. Post, not poster.

Stop projecting. Please.



You are on ignore. But when I log off and come back and see you have written something that’s just completely wrong, I have to correct it. Sorry.


My point being I had left and actually did not intent to return. I only returned for SNW. I might still leave anyways.

Whereas you, who posted how it was great to have me back literally days ago. Another disingenuous post from you, as usual.

Your posts are boring and elicit a big yawn from me now. I'd like to move on. Thanks.



Which you would put in a business plan. Less fighting, more listening.



Which is really a consequence of the first season of DIS. If that season had the appeal of viewer as it did critics, Star Trek would be in a different place. DIS is in the public consciousness, but not in the positive way like TOS and TNG.

Paramount should have led with SNW first.



That's all on Paramount. They announce a film with no script and without talking to the cast. And as so inflexible that they won't even do a movie were there is only one or two characters in the entire film and its set in a single location.

You've earned a time out for ignoring my post and continuing to get personal.

 

[Paul755]

I would love if Section 31 begin a series of Stand-alone movies they can either be animated or Live-action. Just a one-off detailing an untold event in Star Trek history. Similar to the Lost Era of books. (I.E. Kirk's time on the Republic/Farragut, Riker's time on the original Titan, the Romulan War, the Treaty of Algeron, The Khitomer Massacre, etc....).

I kinda think this might be the way forward for Star Trek on P+ once they end the current series and Starfleet Academy. I dunno if they would get into real specific events like Khitomer, young Kirk, etc…but maybe an adventure featuring the Discovery crew, something on the E-G, etc…

As for my thoughts, I feel that in two years there isn’t going to be any more Star Trek on TV at all.

2 years?…I dunno, given the strikes we may not get SNW S3 or LD S5 until late 2024/early 2025. I could see a scenario where they cancel both of those, plus Academy and S31 but I would be totally shocked if they actually did.

In fact it would not surprise me at all if Lower Decks is the first Trek since Voyager to go 7 seasons.

 

[Dukhat]

Which is really a consequence of the first season of DIS. If that season had the appeal of viewer as it did critics, Star Trek would be in a different place. DIS is in the public consciousness, but not in the positive way like TOS and TNG.

Paramount should have led with SNW first.

If, by "public consciousness,' you mean the general public's consciousness, then no, DSC is not in the general public's consciousness, nor would it have been if they led with SNW first. Because the general public was not going to pay for yet another streaming service just to watch a Star Trek show. Star Wars, possibly, but not Star Trek.

One of my best friends can be described to a T as the general audience. He is a casual TV watcher and moviegoer, and has zero interest in science fiction. Yet he loves Star Wars and thinks Star Trek is stupid. I can almost guarantee he pays for Disney+ to watch all the Wars movies and shows, and does NOT pay for Paramount+ because, as I said, he thinks Star Trek is stupid and wouldn't even watch it if it was being shown on network TV for free.

That's all on Paramount.

Well, yes, I know that. That wasn't in dispute. That doesn't change my point about the downfall of Trek.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Stranger Things is an interesting case. I've seen some of it. The story is fine, but it didn't hook me. If I ever go back to it, I have to wonder if it's more because of the story or more because I get a kick out of how dead-accurate they got the '80s. It seriously looks like when I was a little kid. And the house reminds me of someone else's house I used to visit all the time.

It's a funny one for me as well. I watched Season 1 and really enjoyed it, but I felt it wrapped itself up very neatly and have never felt the need to return for Season 2 onwards. Maybe one day.

And as so inflexible that they won't even do a movie were there is only one or two characters in the entire film and its set in a single location.

Name five successful movies where there are only one or two characters in a single location.

I can't even imagine what a Star Trek movie with one character would be like... I think there are very few movies in the entirety of cinema history that feature only one character.

But please, give a brief synopsis. What would this movie that had only one or two characters in a single location be about? How would that play out over it's 2 hour runtime?

 

[mattman8907]

I kinda think this might be the way forward for Star Trek on P+ once they end the current series and Starfleet Academy. I dunno if they would get into real specific events like Khitomer, young Kirk, etc…but maybe an adventure featuring the Discovery crew, something on the E-G, etc…



2 years?…I dunno, given the strikes we may not get SNW S3 or LD S5 until late 2024/early 2025. I could see a scenario where they cancel both of those, plus Academy and S31 but I would be totally shocked if they actually did.

In fact it would not surprise me at all if Lower Decks is the first Trek since Voyager to go 7 seasons.

I really hope SNW doesn't get canned. It's been a breath of fresh air for Star Trek. bringing it back to its episodic roots

 

[William Gatsby]

A few observations and thoughts:

So Section 31 is kicking off Phase 2. And this Starfleet Academy show will naturally be a part of that.

The description that we have right now for it is...

Paramount+ Orders Diverse, Teen-Focused 'Star Trek: Starfleet Academy' Series

The drama will follow the "blossoming friendships, explosive rivalries [and] first loves" of a new class of Starfleet cadets who are as young as 16.

That reads as a play to reach a new audience, something Star Trek desperately needs.

Long-time fans currently have Strange New Worlds, as well as Lower Decks I'm assuming, to enjoy. And I'm guessing this Starfleet Academy show probably isn't targeted at some of them.

I'm really looking forward to the show because I like "new things," but my prediction is it will be disliked by Star Trek fans who only want Star Trek to be done one way. And it will be called not real Star Trek and so on and so forth by them. And since they're apparently aiming for a "diverse" show, it will be labeled "woke" (or whatever new euphemism they come up with) by some.

Its success will be determined by how different it is from the way Star Trek is usually done. If it's too similar, then we have an idea of where its ceiling is. If it's different enough and compelling enough, then it may reach that desired new audience.

I had thought that the days of having a variety of Star Trek shows to cover everyone's interests were over, but I may have been too quick in thinking that. Because that seems like what we're still going to be getting, provided that there will still be Star Trek in a few years.

 

[Paul755]

A few observations and thoughts:

So Section 31 is kicking off Phase 2. And this Starfleet Academy show will naturally be a part of that.

The description that we have right now for it is...




That reads as a play to reach a new audience, something Star Trek desperately needs.

Long-time fans currently have Strange New Worlds, as well as Lower Decks I'm assuming, to enjoy. And I'm guessing this Starfleet Academy show probably isn't targeted at some of them.

I'm really looking forward to the show because I like "new things," but my prediction is it will be disliked by Star Trek fans who only want Star Trek to be done one way. And it will be called not real Star Trek and so on and so forth by them. And since they're apparently aiming for a "diverse" show, it will be labeled "woke" (or whatever new euphemism they come up with) by some.

Its success will be determined by how different it is from the way Star Trek is usually done. If it's too similar, then we have an idea of where its ceiling is. If it's different enough and compelling enough, then it may reach that desired new audience.

I had thought that the days of having a variety of Star Trek shows to cover everyone's interests were over, but I may have been too quick in thinking that. Because that seems like what we're still going to be getting, provided that there will still be Star Trek in a few years.

I think for the overall Trek fanbase Academy is starting out with two strikes.

One is “teen drama” description that brings to mind the stereotypical CW angsty drivel.

the second is the idea that it’s preventing us from having the “promised land” of Star Trek: Legacy. Go through the threads about Legacy and see how many people want to back burner or outright cancel Academy to get us the 7 of 9 power hour. Those are the type of fans that will purposely not watch and bad mouth Academy in order to drive numbers and opinion down to make it go away.