All Janeway's fault?

[Oddish]

And the Endgame future was the original prime timeline before Admiral Janeway went back in time and changed it for her own selfish reasons, thereby denying Harry Kim a promotion and a ship to command, still being an ensign in 2401.

And setting up the mean-spirited "poor dumb Harry Kim" trope that's been circulating endlessly around the Internet for the past 22 years.

The disturbing thing is that unless Harry was already added to Prodigy S2 (and it gets aired), the only series remaining set in that time period is "Lower Decks", and it'd right up their alley to have Harry still be an ensign. So, the wrong that the VOY showrunners did may never be righted.

 

[Tuskin38]

There is no evidence that the virus inflicted upon the Borg preceding Picard season 3 is the same as Janeway’s Neurolytic pathogen from 20 year earlier.

It was said by Terry that the queen is fucked up because of Future Janeway's pathogen.

 

[Oddish]

We don't know what happened to the Borg in the original "Endgame" timeline, the one Janeway erased. In that one, she destroyed their nexus, but didn't infect them. I would think that we would need to know what happened there before we assign blame.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was said by Terry that the queen is fucked up because of Future Janeway's pathogen.

Then he should have said that in the show he wrote.

If he chooses not to make pertinent information canon, then he shouldn't change his mind when it's too late, or reserve to declassify documents with his mind, at a later date.

What I remember the show saying is that she was lost in space and only survived by eating drones, which means that they forgot how to make replicators... Or they can't use replicators because Borg do not poop.

The book was wrong.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Matalas says a number of things that could have been said in the show but sometimes they don’t have time to include all of them.

 

[Timofnine]

Matalas says a number of things that could have been said in the show but sometimes they don’t have time to include all of them.

Does this all mean that Boungelikki buckets are also now canon?

View attachment 33158
Terry said that the bucket is not of Bajoran design, it is actually a Boungelliki bucket.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Then he should have said that in the show he wrote.

This.

Matalas says a number of things that could have been said in the show but sometimes they don’t have time to include all of them.

A fair point, but its also fair to feel that some things could have been in the script regardless, even if they had to cut scenes for time.

People do watch deleted scenes and do watch extended cuts.

 

[Dukhat]

Matalas says a number of things that could have been said in the show but sometimes they don’t have time to include all of them.

She didn’t have time to say one line about Janeway’s pathogen?

 

[Tuskin38]

Does this all mean that Boungelikki buckets are also now canon?

He was making a joke in the tweet.

n that one, she destroyed their nexus, but didn't infect them.

When was that said in Endgame? I don't remember that at all.

She didn’t have time to say one line about Janeway’s pathogen?

Then he should have said that in the show he wrote.

She blamed the Federation for what happened to her in dialogue. Janeway is part of the Federation.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When was that said in Endgame? I don't remember that at all.

In the original timeline from Endgame she ran. No blowy uppy no transwarp nexsus departure. In Endgame actual she had started to run away when Admiral Janeway came back from the future to call Captain Janeway a loser.

She blamed the Federation for what happened to her in dialogue. Janeway is part of the Federation.

The virus was 23 years ago.

How long long was she trapped in Deep Space? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?

And then she reinvented warp, found some more drones, invented a new method of assimilation, infected every transporter in Star Fleet with a Borg Virus that went undetected for how long coinciding with Starfleet becoming so casual with the lack of Borg attacks that they networked their ships in a way that would make them extremely vulnerable to Borg attacks, all the while hiding in the great spot of Jupiter, a planet where billions of humans live (in orbit) and mine the shit out of for natural resources. Actually it's a safe bet that the Spot itself is a Federation Park, the same same as a National park in the US is a historical preserve protected from anti-environmentalism, and then she waited somewhere between 1 and twenty years to strike.

Revenge is a dish best served cold, but c'mon man!

 

[Timofnine]

He was making a joke in the tweet.

Then we should only take seriously what we see depicted on screen in canon. How do we know when Terry is joking and when he is not? He could also say something drunk one day on Twitter and regret it the next day. Everything on screen is approved by the producers, anything left out is open to interpretation without a conclusive narrative within the series/episode/movie. We should not need to refer to social media to help explain the context of a given situation or scenario.

Why did the Changeling even have a Boungelikki bucket unless the Founder in question was *actually* Odo gone rogue? We were presented with a mug shot of Odo along with the bucket, it has never been stated in previous canon that Changelings need these buckets to revert back in to their gelatinous state, this is almost a misinformed retcon. Founders/Changelings prefer to rest naturally in various locations, or when back ‘home’ in the Great Link itself as one gelatinous liquid mass. The bucket was given to Odo by Mora Pol after he was found in the Denorios belt by a group of Cardassians. I did think that the bucket was of Bajoran design, but Terry said otherwise.

She blamed the Federation for what happened to her in dialogue. Janeway is part of the Federation.

Section 31 could also be interpreted as being a part of the Federation, this is a very broad and ambiguous ‘umbrella’ term. Also, surely the Borg Queen would have actually targeted Janeway in revenge (this seems to be how she rolls) making this all in to more of a sequel to Endgame as well as Best of Both Worlds? I think that this was most certainly a different virus

 

[Guy Gardener]

Echeb still had Borg AIDS.

If it was his virus, used in an adventure we did not see, and all her revenge was supposed to impact on Icheb, but then he died... She was floundering.

 

[Oddish]

When was that said in Endgame? I don't remember that at all

Here's the timeline as I understand it.

Original Timeline:
2378 - Voyager finds the Borg transwarp nexus. Using the same argument as 7 years earlier, Janeway destroys it. However, she does not have any means of infecting the Borg, only destroying their nexus.
2394 - After 16 additional years of travel (23 total), Voyager reaches home. Seven is dead, Chakotay dies soon after, and Tuvok's brain disorder is incurable.
2404 - The other crew have moved on from their loss, but Janeway has not. She travels back in time...

Canonical Timeline:
2378: Adm. Janeway, age 71, arrives in the past and tries to urge her younger self to use the nexus instead of destroying it. However, Capt. Janeway's altruism trumps her future self's warning, and she refuses. So, Adm. Janeway stays behind and decimates the Borg, allowing Capt. Janeway to destroy the nexus but also use it.

 

[Timofnine]

There was also the virus which Picard inflicted on to Hugh in I, Borg before returning him to the Collective, which we see the aftermaths of in Descent, so it cannot be this virus which we see depicted in Picard season 3.

It is a shame that Geordi did not get to meet Hugh again in Picard season 3, btw. That would have been amazing and is a lost opportunity.

 

[Tuskin38]

How do we know when Terry is joking and when he is not?

It's very obvious when he's making a joke.

I did think that the bucket was of Bajoran design, but Terry said otherwise.

He was making a joke. Do you have a hard time recognizing humour?

2378 - Voyager finds the Borg transwarp nexus. Using the same argument as 7 years earlier, Janeway destroys it. However, she does not have any means of infecting the Borg, only destroying their nexus.

In the Admiral Janeway's timeline they avoided the Nebula and kept on going. She didn't destroy the hub.

surely the Borg Queen would have actually targeted Janeway in revenge

Her revenge was against the entire Federation, not just Picard. She was never targeting just Picard, only his son for capture because of reasons explained in the show.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Here's the timeline as I understand it.

Original Timeline:
2378 - Voyager finds the Borg transwarp nexus. Using the same argument as 7 years earlier, Janeway destroys it. However, she does not have any means of infecting the Borg, only destroying their nexus.
2394 - After 16 additional years of travel (23 total), Voyager reaches home. Seven is dead, Chakotay dies soon after, and Tuvok's brain disorder is incurable.
2404 - The other crew have moved on from their loss, but Janeway has not. She travels back in time...

Canonical Timeline:
2378: Adm. Janeway, age 71, arrives in the past and tries to urge her younger self to use the nexus instead of destroying it. However, Capt. Janeway's altruism trumps her future self's warning, and she refuses. So, Adm. Janeway stays behind and decimates the Borg, allowing Capt. Janeway to destroy the nexus but also use it.

I just watched "some" of Endgame and there's no mention of Young Admiral Janeway destroying the hub in the original timeline. Later Admiral Janeway's plan is to use the hub and leave the hub standing. It's only Janeway being an argumentative Turd that "convinces" Admiral Janeway that they can both use the hub and destroy it (the opposite of Caretaker's array). Of course I figured out years ago that Admiral Janeway knew all along that Captain Janeway was an argumentative Turd and that the only way to get what she wants, is to ask for the exact opposite of what she wants.

 

[Tuskin38]

all the while hiding in the great spot of Jupiter, a planet where billions of humans live (in orbit) and mine the shit out of for natural resources.

She only appeared there when jack flew to Jupiter.

Remember his shuttle picked up an active transwarp conduit inside the atmosphere, and the suddenly the super cube was there. She wasn't hiding there for years.

 

[Tuskin38]

There was also the virus which Picard inflicted on to Hugh in I, Borg before returning him to the Collective

Rewatch that episode, they never went through with infecting Hugh. Picard called it off because it would have been genocide.
The situation in Decent was caused by Hugh's memories and experiences of becoming an individual.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She only appeared there when jack flew to Jupiter.

Remember his shuttle picked up an active transwarp conduit inside the atmosphere, and the suddenly the super cube was there. She wasn't hiding there for years.

What does "appeared" mean?

The Federation can detect trans warp conduits and warp bubbles, baring the discovery of something new, it would have taken the Queen's Cube decades to approach sector 001 at impulse under cloak.

I do not believe that the Queen was there for "years" either, but it's the ridiculous edge of the progression that everything she did in season 3 of Picard is because of Janeway 23 years ago, rather than Janeway 23 years ago and another 20 years of constant shitty Federation bad behaviour.

The Birth or puberty of Jack Crusher, a Biorg transciever, might have been what gave the Queen the germ to this nefarious plan, but then maybe they fiddled with baby Jack, rather than siezed on an opportunity.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

She didn’t have time to say one line about Janeway’s pathogen?

I just realized that with streaming they don’t really have to worry about a set run time.