We need a new TV series taking place during ST VI: The Undiscovered Country
- Thread starter Domitian
- Start date
You didn’t notice crossing the main highway going from Cannon to Lafayette? (I grew up in NH and have climbed many of the peaks in the area, including Cannon, Lafayette, Wildcat, Madison, Adams—none to taken lightly). Glad you made it in one piece.Hiking Cannon Mountain in New Hampshire, which I did in the summer of 2015. In the winter, it's also a ski resort. I got lost, then that was a whole adventure in and of itself, I did things I shouldn't have done, and I put my life at risk. But it felt awesome and exhilarating. My favorite type of masochism.
EDITED TO ADD: Here's the whole story, from two Facebook posts of mine at the time.
June 20, 2015. I drove three hours to Cannon Mountain in New Hampshire and met up with four people. Early on in the hike, we as a group decided to go back down. Keep reading.
We decided to take the rail up. I only got a one-way ticket. After everyone left, I decided I was going to do what I set out to do.
I hiked down. Or rather tried to. I got lost at one point and ended up going around a lake before I worked my way through Mount Lafayette (how'd I get to another mountain?!) which was STEEP, let me repeat that -- it was S_T_E_E_P. and *then* finally made it back to Cannon Mountain.
I tried getting down, then ended up going up. When I saw how high I was, I realized it was easier to get to the top than the bottom.
Only when I reached the bottom, the rail was closed. I didn't want to risk getting lost again, so I went down the ski area. It was steep, it was dangerous, and I was possibly putting my life at risk, but I made it back down.
After that I drove to Rhode Island for a party. Also a three-hour drive.
So... it didn't go the way I planned but ended up going exactly the way I wanted. I got what I was looking for, even though it wasn't the way I thought it would be. The hardest, most difficult hike imaginable.
So how do I feel after all of that, physically? I'm in good shape. I'm not tired. My muscles aren't that sore at all. And I wore leggings instead of jeans, so I didn't have to worry about chaffing (that was a problem last time). The only real probably was dehydration, but drinking a lot of water and juice. I probably shouldn't have coffee or soda but, anyway, I'm filling up on fluids.
So, yeah, much like the character whose username I have, I'm not a sane person.
Yes. “Hiking” in NH is never simply “a walk through some woods”.
One does not simply take a hike in New Hampshire.
I was mixed up and got lost while trying to figure out my way back, so maybe it wasn't Lafayette.
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Speaking of lost... Back on topic. It's my fault here we got off.
In 1992, 1993, I would've loved a Sulu series. Then, when I saw "Flashback" a few years later, I liked the episode well enough BUT it didn't exactly leave me wanting more.
Similar thing with GEN. I was looking more forward to the TOS parts than the TNG parts, but the Enterprise-B crew didn't grab me.
I still think something can be done with this era, and hopefully if they ever do a series with a young Picard (that's the only way I see this happening), they'll be able to bring that potential out.
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No. One does not.
Lafayette is across the Notch and its peak is above the tree line. But the lake you described could be Lonesome Lake. It is just south of the five peaks that collectively form Cannon Mountain (doing more than two or three peaks in half a day is very grueling for all but the fittest hikers). Did you notice any buildings by the lake? It’s part of the AMC huts that dot the region and it’s a great place to spend a weekend (took my son a few years ago).
Spock is another character who could be central to the period. And he should appear somewhat younger than Nimoy did in the 90s, so Peck could tackle the role.
I think it was because it was past Takei's prime. At least that was my feeling. I would have enjoyed a Sulu series, but it probably would have been better in the 80s.
I did. And, IIRC, there was a brown sort-of bridge I was walking on at one point.
It could've been that, but I think it was more telling a story parallel to TUC instead of a new story. What really hurt was that Brannon Braga wrote the episode. So it was going based off his understanding of the TOS Era. Which, to be blunt, I don't think he really gets.
I think someone writing a series Post-TUC/Pre-TNG should be very familiar with and have a deep understanding of both the TOS and TNG Eras, because someone heading a series like that would have to find the perfect middle-ground and the perfect blend between the two. Ideally someone would take what was best about one and what was best about the other to make this type of series.
I hadn't thought of that, but a series focused on Spock during this timeframe could work too.
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I clicked expecting a nostalgic TFF clip.
What happened instead was so much better.
Thank you!
Goes across the bog at the southeastern edge of the lake.
I concur.
Braga is pretty much on record as hating TOS isn't he? I think it was Ronald D. Moore who said so?
Back in 2000, Ron Moore didn't go so far as to say Brannon Braga hated TOS, just that he didn't like it. In this multi-part interview Moore spilled his guts. He let it all out. About everything. Let me find the relevant quote...
rdm1000118 - LCARSCom.Net | The LCARS Computer Network | A Star Trek Fan Site
- Excerpt from
PART V: MOORE TALKS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF TELEVISION TREK
Moore says, “I'm not there, so I don't know really what the situation is between Paramount and Rick and Brannon, or how far apart they are, or what the proposals are. What they shouldn't be afraid to do, is to step away from all the STAR TREK that there is. A new series should not take place in the same time period as THE NEXT GENERATION. It should not revisit any of the current plot lines. It shouldn't deal with the Klingons, and the Cardassians, or the Romulans and their current state. It should either go forward in the future, or back in the past.
“The STAR TREK past it's challenging; it sounds like it's fun on one level, and I thought that was an interesting way to go for a long time. But it has a lot of pitfalls to it. You have a very complex future mapped out. If you are going to go into STAR TREK's past, say, pre-Kirk, you better have an iron-clad commitment to maintaining the continuity that's been established, or I think you are just going to lose everybody. Because if you go back before Kirk, and you start screwing around, and you just don't care what NEXT GEN or DS9 or VOYAGER established, or the movies, or even the original series, you just try to make it up as you go along, I think you just lost everyone. The whole franchise will just collapse, because it will have no validity whatsoever.
If you are going to go there, you really better be prepared to truly put on the STAR TREK mantle and be the keeper of the flame. I think that is really hard for Rick and Brannon. It's hard for them to do that, because they don't like the original show. Let's not mince words. They don't like the original show. They have never liked the original show. They'll bob and weave a bit here and there in public. But they don't like it; they don't want to have anything to do with it. If you are going to go before the original series and do something, you better have a change of attitude. You better have an epiphany about how much you love the original series. It's all going to be about leading up to that.
EDITED TO ADD: One very important thing to keep in mind was that this was January 18th, 2000. Ron Moore was still smarting from his experience after leaving VOY and his falling out with Brannon Braga. So, his account has to be looked at through that lens. And every story has two sides.
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It turns out it wasn't a quote from RDM I was thinking of. It was Mark A. Altman. He had this to say:
"The dirty little secret is Berman and the people running Star Trek right now hate The Original Series and hate being compared to it. They are not people who have any affection for the old show. When Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer took over the franchise for Star Trek II, they went back and looked at every episode of The Original Series and learned everything they could about what worked and what didn't. When these guys [Berman and writer Brannon Braga] took over, they hated the original and resented being in the shadow and avoided watching it. They'd be happy if people forgot the original, and that's unfortunate."
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Brannon_Braga
Again though, that's a rather ascerbic quote and it doesn't tell both sides of the story.
Since Ron Moore worked with Brannon Braga, and I've seen what he said at his angriest, I'll take that over anything Mark Altman says. Mark Altman wears his bias on his sleeve and tries to pass it off as fact. He was part of the Fandom Menace before there actually was a Fandom Menace.
Brannon Braga wasn't a fan of TOS? I believe that.
Brannon Braga wasn't that familiar with TOS? I believe that too.
Roddenberry encouraged everyone not to look at TOS. Fact.
In William Shatner's book Star Trek Movie Memories, Ron Moore talks about killing Kirk. He wanted to answer what happened to Kirk. I think that was Ron all the way. If Ron Moore wasn't there, I don't think Brannon Braga would've written anything with any TOS characters at all.
In "Flashback", Sulu is portrayed as this maverick rule-breaker. Valtane looks up to Sulu and admires him going to rescue Kirk. The Excelsior has a run-in with the Klingons, which looks odd juxtaposed against TUC, which was about trying to end hostilities. And it plays very much like, "Here's our image of what TOS was, everything we were told about it, and look at every myth we can work in! Because they're mythological!" "Space must've seemed so much bigger back then." This from Janeway, who's over 70 years away from home. That was more Brannon Braga talking than Janeway. "They'd all be booted out of the service today!" If someone goes by the movies, I can see how they'd think that. But that was the exception, not the rule. For the sake of argument: if everyone in the 23rd Century was like that, then how would this exaggerated version of Kirk even stand out?
Even as a 17-year-old watching the episode in 1996, I could tell something was off. If they got it right, I would've wanted more. But they didn't. Between that and reading Ron Moore's interview a few years later, it added to my looking at ENT cross-eyed when it premiered. I'd say it was a major contributing factor.
But I don't think Rick Berman and Brannon Braga had hatred for TOS. I just think they weren't enthusiastic about it, they weren't as familiar with it because they didn't think they had to be, and it was just something they had to accept as co-existing with what they were doing.
Brannon Braga wasn't a fan of TOS? I believe that.
Brannon Braga wasn't that familiar with TOS? I believe that too.
Roddenberry encouraged everyone not to look at TOS. Fact.
In William Shatner's book Star Trek Movie Memories, Ron Moore talks about killing Kirk. He wanted to answer what happened to Kirk. I think that was Ron all the way. If Ron Moore wasn't there, I don't think Brannon Braga would've written anything with any TOS characters at all.
In "Flashback", Sulu is portrayed as this maverick rule-breaker. Valtane looks up to Sulu and admires him going to rescue Kirk. The Excelsior has a run-in with the Klingons, which looks odd juxtaposed against TUC, which was about trying to end hostilities. And it plays very much like, "Here's our image of what TOS was, everything we were told about it, and look at every myth we can work in! Because they're mythological!" "Space must've seemed so much bigger back then." This from Janeway, who's over 70 years away from home. That was more Brannon Braga talking than Janeway. "They'd all be booted out of the service today!" If someone goes by the movies, I can see how they'd think that. But that was the exception, not the rule. For the sake of argument: if everyone in the 23rd Century was like that, then how would this exaggerated version of Kirk even stand out?
Even as a 17-year-old watching the episode in 1996, I could tell something was off. If they got it right, I would've wanted more. But they didn't. Between that and reading Ron Moore's interview a few years later, it added to my looking at ENT cross-eyed when it premiered. I'd say it was a major contributing factor.
But I don't think Rick Berman and Brannon Braga had hatred for TOS. I just think they weren't enthusiastic about it, they weren't as familiar with it because they didn't think they had to be, and it was just something they had to accept as co-existing with what they were doing.
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Oh, agreed. I just wanted to dig out the quote I remembered.
I think at least in the case of Berman... For all his faults (and it's debatable whether or not he went too far in this), he always tried to create something that Roddenberry would have approved of.
Roddenberry for whatever reason wasn't too proud of TOS in his later years and wanted to put some distance between the old and the new and I think that's what motivated Berman's disinterest.
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Roddenberry tried to distance himself from TOS as a coping mechanism I’d guess, because he had abandoned the original series in the 3rd season, and then went completely unhinged as the producer of the first film, basically resulting in his being relieved from any future responsibility on the movie franchise.
So, whether consciously or subconsciously, I’m quite certain it was just his way of putting all that pain and frustration behind him…only to create more chaos and angst on TNG in the early years.
So, whether consciously or subconsciously, I’m quite certain it was just his way of putting all that pain and frustration behind him…only to create more chaos and angst on TNG in the early years.
I would like a series in this lost era..
But not with the current crop in charge..
It would be so much fan wank and memberries and Easter eggs that it would be unwatchable for me.
Plus they'd want to change things..
And.. Unless they set it in 2223.. None of the tos actors could cameo.
Best time would be 2205.. Klingons at peace but with the occasional renegade ..
One if the things i would really like about the era would be antgonistic Romulans.. Leading up to the tomed incident inn 2211.
But not with the current crop in charge..
It would be so much fan wank and memberries and Easter eggs that it would be unwatchable for me.
Plus they'd want to change things..
And.. Unless they set it in 2223.. None of the tos actors could cameo.
Best time would be 2205.. Klingons at peace but with the occasional renegade ..
One if the things i would really like about the era would be antgonistic Romulans.. Leading up to the tomed incident inn 2211.
You need to add 100 years to each of those dates. It would be the early-24th Century, not the early-23rd Century.
Possibly.
A little context helps as well I think. In the 2020s, TOS's aesthetic reads as adorable retro-futuristic kitsch. In the 1980s, the whole 60s aesthetic just looked horribly dated to some I guess.
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