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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Controversial Opinion:

Nobody gave a fuck about the fate of Icheb until he was killed.

Well, of course not. He was a recurring, minor character on a show that had ended. Outside of fanfic or occasional, light fan-speculation on the fate of the VOY characters as a whole there was no real reason to think much about Icheb. Particularly because for a long time there was no new Trek and/or no new Trek set in the future of the 90s shows, so there was no reason to believe that we'd ever see Icheb again, or get any official word on his fate.

That doesn't devalue the reactions people can have to his death. Frankly Icheb's death was not one of the things that turned me off PIC, and I thought it had its place in the story, and not everybody is gonna get a happy ending. But I do dislike it when they bring back a minor character in a long-running franchise just to kill them off.
 
I would say as a series, SNW absolutely has Picard beat.

S1 is better than Picard S3. But S1 is arguably one of the top 5 seasons in franchise history.

I’m not ready to say S2 is better than Picard S3 though, too early to tell. SNW is gonna need a heckuva performance to beat Levar Burton in Picard S3…IMO. And so far nobody has come close.
 
Other than the second episode of the season (which I was expecting to be good), I agree. I've stopped watching.

SNW is now the fourth Star Trek series I've stopped watching during its run. Following VOY, ENT, and LD.
I checked out of Voyager around the episode where Seven of Nine is fighting/wrestling The Rock lol. I read that the episode had like some of the highest ratings for the show that season, but it was the point that I realized Voyager wasn't my type of Star Trek and it probably never was going to be. I still would check in from time-to-time when an episode looked interesting, but it wasn't must watch week-to-week after that point.

I gave up on the last season of Discovery after Book's actions just became too stupid. To me, it was an "idiot plot" where if the characters had one single conversation explaining everything to each other, or stopped acting like idiots, arguably the intergalactic threat/Michael's love life dilemma could have been resolved. But instead, we have episode after episode of a false problem and after a while I was done with it.
 
I checked out of Voyager around the episode where Seven of Nine is fighting/wrestling The Rock lol.
I was constantly back-and-forth on VOY during the first three seasons. I used to joke that the episode quality was like New England Weather. Constantly up and down and changing. The fourth season was solid. Seven was the shot in the arm the series needed. Then came the fifth season, and it was back to New England Weather again, and I finally got tired of the constant sea-saw. I stuck around for the first three episodes of the sixth season to see what Ron Moore would've brought to the table, then I checked out.

I dropped ENT after six episodes. I figured it was that happy medium between "You didn't give it a chance!" and "If you don't like it, don't watch it!"

LD, I just lost interest in, and I didn't think it was that funny.

With SNW, it just wasn't hooking me. The ratio of episodes that I thought were mixed or middling was getting too high. After the first five episodes, I was giving two-thirds of them a 6 out of 10. Too much "meh". There's a problem if I'm giving six 6's in a nine-episode stretch. So I thought it was time to take my exit cue and bow out gracefully.
 
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I dropped in an out on Voyager after the first two seasons. I picked it back up out of curiosity about Seven but even then interest only lasted a bit. Eventually I did watch it all the way thru.

I was going to give up on Enterprise after S2 also but decided to give S3 a chance and it hooked me to stay thru the end.

haven’t given up on any nu-Trek.
 
I think a lot of the critics of Picard season 3 aren't judging the show based on its choices or its overall quality.

Speaking for myself, I absolutely judged it on its overall quality, which I found no better then the writing found in other "nutrek" series, such as Discovery, a show I've stated on many occasions to be far from my favourite. I also didn’t find the writing to be far superior to the writing in the previous seasons.

If they're being honest, they're annoyed that a lot of people, especially the people that disliked Discovery and a lot of "Nu Trek," loved a version of Star Trek that seemed to validate the idea of using the franchise's unaltered past and tacitly disproved all of the arguments and justifications that Trek needed to be reimagined to be popular with a modern audience.

What was annoying was that these Picard cheerleaders were being hypocritical in their praise for the third season, all while the season was chock-full of the same plot conveniences, perceived canon violations, and "mystery box" style writing that they've spent years harping about over the internet. Indeed, the character of Jack is every bit a "Mary Sue" as a certain other character in the franchise is constantly claimed to be.


Reading between the lines, some seem to think that liking Picard season 3, or to support what Matalas wants to do going forward, is a tacit admission that all of those people who complained about ship designs not matching or looking close to what they did 30 years ago were right. And that engenders a lot of the "concern" about the excitement of season 3.

The problem I have with "those" people, I think could be summed up by something Leonard Nimoy once said...

Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a 'Star Trek' fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'.

Indeed, it's this strict.... fanatical devotion to "the canon" that may be one of the fandoms greatest faults.

There was a time that I myself was probably one of the most fanatical over Starships. I've read the tech manuals. Built the models. I can rhyme off the length of dozens of Starship classes off the top of my head.

But, over the years I've developed an open mind. I can suspend my disbelief over things such as the Enterprise looking different, because, in the end, it's just a fictional TV show or film, made by different people.

It's not saying anything substantially new, doing anything substantially new, or breaking any new ground, since so far they refuse to create their own new corner of Trek and instead have to play with old toys (e.g., the Gorn, T'Pring, augments, etc.).
And Picard was treading new ground? Virtually everything in the season was a recycling of something from the past. From the music, to copying elements and themes from the films. We needed yet another WOK? Never mind dragging out the Founders AND the Borg, again.

You might call Strange New Worlds a new coat of paint, and indeed that may even be partially accurate. But it could also be argued that the show IS Star Trek in it's purist form. A ship and crew, exploring the galaxy while also being allegorical to the issues we face today. THAT is why I love the show.
 
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What was annoying was that these Picard cheerleaders were being hypocritical in their praise for the third season, all while the season was chock-full of the same plot conveniences, perceived canon violations, and "mystery box" style writing that they've spent years harping about over the internet. Indeed, the character of Jack is every bit a "Mary Sue" as a certain other character in the franchise is constantly claimed to be.
That was indeed the toughest part. I was looking at Picard and going "This is ok, but it's not stellar." And then, well, I just continued to be unimpressed, or no more so that recent seasons of Discovery. So...eh?

Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a 'Star Trek' fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'.
I have to agree with Mr. Nimoy.
 
I want Strange New Worlds to absolutely smoke Picard in the ratings, if only to annoy the hell out of the segment of the fandom that worships Terry Matalas and view him as the Savior of Star Trek.

Trek didn't need saving.

Controversial opinion?

I want Disco to beat them both to really aggravate those who have hated on it for years.

I'd certainly be content with anything which mutes the Matalas worship and makes Legacy less likely.

I think a lot of the critics of Picard season 3 aren't judging the show based on its choices or its overall quality. If they're being honest, they're annoyed that a lot of people, especially the people that disliked Discovery and a lot of "Nu Trek," loved a version of Star Trek that seemed to validate the idea of using the franchise's unaltered past and tacitly disproved all of the arguments and justifications that Trek needed to be reimagined to be popular with a modern audience. Reading between the lines, some seem to think that liking Picard season 3, or to support what Matalas wants to do going forward, is a tacit admission that all of those people who complained about ship designs not matching or looking close to what they did 30 years ago were right. And that engenders a lot of the "concern" about the excitement of season 3.

"Being honest", I'm annoyed at the hypocrisy of those critics-turned-lovers, as noted by HotRod above. S3 had many of the same features which had been attacked in previous seasons of Picard and Disco, but they were ignored or accepted due to the overwhelming appeal to nostalgia.

I found it a poor season in the latter half (I enjoyed the first half) because the direction became so transparently focused on the nostalgia to the detriment of the story. It got to the point of a shameless plug for a new series by the end, with the horrid dialogue along the lines of "Gosh, what wacky and exciting adventures our totally interesting crew will get up to; now let's head for the star system which has a name sounding just like our show runner's", which made the whole thing feel especially cynical (especially when combined with cuddling up to hateful members of the fanbase before the season began).

I also dislike it for so casually tossing aside the previous two seasons, both characters and stories.

As to the whole reimagining aspect, while I care little about that ongoing argument, I would strongly doubt whether:
a) Picard S3 appealed to any significant audience outside the existing fandom; and
b) Any future series which didn't have the benefit of a full cast being reunited would be received anywhere near as well.

Plus adding in a secret lovechild of Picard and Beverley is hardly using the franchise’s ‘unaltered past’.
 
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I never thought much about Icheb, I suppose.

I think to me Voyager suggested he would have a decent future (given what we saw in shattered and his preparing for Starfleet examinations and so), something in Starfleet and that was enough for me to know, to not be interested any further, and hence I didn't spare the character any thought anymore.

Seeing him brutally murdered in Picard was not one of the things I liked to see, though. Also because in a way, his fate came full circle: started out as a weapon, escaped from that, but ended as a repository to harvest from. That's cynical.
 
And Picard was treading new ground? Virtually everything in the season was a recycling of something from the past. From the music, to copying elements and themes from the films. We needed yet another WOK? Never mind dragging out the Founders AND the Borg, again.
Strange New Worlds and Picard are attempting two separate things though. Picard season 3 made clear from the first trailers for it that it was going to be a cast reunion. I don't expect a series about a legacy character that's specifically doing a reunion to tread new ground. But a show that's called Strange New Worlds could sometimes go to worlds that are new and strange, instead of hitting up all of the old TOS places.
What was annoying was that these Picard cheerleaders were being hypocritical in their praise for the third season, all while the season was chock-full of the same plot conveniences, perceived canon violations, and "mystery box" style writing that they've spent years harping about over the internet. Indeed, the character of Jack is every bit a "Mary Sue" as a certain other character in the franchise is constantly claimed to be.
"Being honest", I'm annoyed at the hypocrisy of those critics-turned-lovers, as noted by HotRod above. S3 had many of the same features which had been attacked in previous seasons of Picard and Disco, but they were ignored or accepted due to the overwhelming appeal to nostalgia.

And that goes back to something posted earlier here. l'd argue all of those issues present in Picard season 3 are able to work because that segment of the audience is able to move past them because of how much they care about those characters. The writing and acting over the years built a connection with a significant amount of fans, and if you have that you're able to go with it. If you don't have that affection for those characters or their version of Trek (which some in this thread have made clear they don't feel for TNG) then it's not going to work for you. And I think that's why it doesn't work for those that have issues with Discovery and Strange New Worlds. They just don't feel it for those characters or those series.
I found it a poor season in the latter half (I enjoyed the first half) because the direction became so transparently focused on the nostalgia to the detriment of the story. It got to the point of a shameless plug for a new series by the end, with the horrid dialogue along the lines of "Gosh, what wacky and exciting adventures our totally interesting crew will get up to; now let's head for the star system which has a name sounding just like our show runner's", which made the whole thing feel especially cynical (especially when combined with cuddling up to hateful members of the fanbase before the season began).
To me, season 3 was never been about blowing up bad guys, or the "mystery box" of the Changeling/Borg plot. Criticizing the plot dynamics of how well the Borg Queen's plan functions misses the forest for the trees. Season 3 was about these characters finding each other again, the characters realizing what they’ve lost in distancing themselves from the closeness they had with each other once upon a time, and re-finding their strengths and growing as people once they come together to deal with this problem.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is not about the mystery box of the probe. At the end of that movie, we don’t know who sent the probe, we don’t know why the probe wanted to talk to humpback whales, and we don’t even know what the whales and the probe said to each other. It's not a failing of that story that it doesn't answer any of those questions, or that there are many plot "conveniences" that get the audience to the ending. Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett realized none of it matters to the themes of that movie. All the mystery of the probe and the hijinks which occur serves is to set up the conditions to watch the interaction of the TOS characters, see how they work together after all of the years, and reinforce how they stand together as a family, where at the end of the movie we know why Kirk deserves to be in the captain’s chair of the Enterprise-A with Spock and the rest of them at his side.

That’s exactly the same story dynamic in season 3 of Picard, where the story is a means to an end with reuniting these specific characters and seeing how they’ve changed, but how they’re a family and meant to be on the bridge of the Enterprise-D together again in the end.

And just speaking for myself, it worked. When Riker readies himself for his own death and says: “I love you, Imzadi. We’ll be waiting. Me and our boy.” I felt that and it hit me. When Data talks about Spot teaching him love, that worked for me. The entire climax hinges on the audience caring about Picard’s desire to have a connection with Jack. I cared about those things because I cared about those characters having a good ending.
 
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Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae. Open your mind! Be a 'Star Trek' fan and open your mind and say, 'Where does Star Trek want to take me now'.

If Star Trek spends it's time rewriting it's history, then apparently it wants to take us in circles instead of forward.
 
I cared about those things because I cared about those characters having a good ending.
Now you understand why I like Discovery and d o not care for Season 3 in Picard. I cared about the earlier season characters and they were replaced. I was given poor substitutes and told it was steak.

The story didn't work. And that's essential to me. If a story doesn't resonate the characters better. Sadly, no.

It's just like other newer Trek. It just coasted on the feels.
 
Strange New Worlds and Picard are attempting two separate things though. Picard season 3 made clear from the first trailers for it that it was going to be a cast reunion. I don't expect a series about a legacy character that's specifically doing a reunion to tread new ground. But a show that's called Strange New Worlds could sometimes go to worlds that are new and strange, instead of hitting up all of the old TOS places.



And that goes back to something posted earlier here. l'd argue all of those issues present in Picard season 3 are able to work because that segment of the audience is able to move past them because of how much they care about those characters. The writing and acting over the years built a connection with a significant amount of fans, and if you have that you're able to go with it. If you don't have that affection for those characters or their version of Trek (which some in this thread have made clear they don't feel for TNG) then it's not going to work for you. And I think that's why it doesn't work for those that have issues with Discovery and Strange New Worlds. They just don't feel it for those characters or those series.

To me, season 3 was never been about blowing up bad guys, or the "mystery box" of the Changeling/Borg plot. Criticizing the plot dynamics of how well the Borg Queen's plan functions misses the forest for the trees. Season 3 was about these characters finding each other again, the characters realizing what they’ve lost in distancing themselves from the closeness they had with each other once upon a time, and re-finding their strengths and growing as people once they come together to deal with this problem.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is not about the mystery box of the probe. At the end of that movie, we don’t know who sent the probe, we don’t know why the probe wanted to talk to humpback whales, and we don’t even know what the whales and the probe said to each other. It's not a failing of that story that it doesn't answer any of those questions, or that there are many plot "conveniences" that get the audience to the ending. Leonard Nimoy and Harve Bennett realized none of it matters to the themes of that movie. All the mystery of the probe and the hijinks which occur serves is to set up the conditions to watch the interaction of the TOS characters, see how they work together after all of the years, and reinforce how they stand together as a family, where at the end of the movie we know why Kirk deserves to be in the captain’s chair of the Enterprise-A with Spock and the rest of them at his side.

That’s exactly the same story dynamic in season 3 of Picard, where the story is a means to an end with reuniting these specific characters and seeing how they’ve changed, but how they’re a family and meant to be on the bridge of the Enterprise-D together again in the end.

And just speaking for myself, it worked. When Riker readies himself for his own death and says: “I love you, Imzadi. We’ll be waiting. Me and our boy.” I felt that and it hit me. When Data talks about Spot teaching him love, that worked for me. The entire climax hinges on the audience caring about Picard’s desire to have a connection with Jack. I cared about those things because I cared about those characters having a good ending.

CsWNWj3.gif


Seriously, you posted like three different spoilers for Picard in that one post.

How many times have I cautioned people? Updated the pinned spoiler thread?

No spoilers for Picard Season 3 or SNW Season 2.
 
CsWNWj3.gif


Seriously, you posted like three different spoilers for Picard in that one post.

How many times have I cautioned people? Updated the pinned spoiler thread?

No spoilers for Picard Season 3 or SNW Season 2.
Quark said it better.
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I want Strange New Worlds to absolutely smoke Picard in the ratings, if only to annoy the hell out of the segment of the fandom that worships Terry Matalas and view him as the Savior of Star Trek.

Trek didn't need saving.

Controversial opinion?

Controversial Opinion:

Rooting for one segment of the franchise to "beat" another isn't particularly healthy or productive. I've seen a lot of it lately, and it makes me feel like Trek fandom is devolving into the immature ways of MCU and Star Wars fans. "I want this to fail just to stick it to <fans I don't agree with/ producers I don't like/ critics I hate / whatever else makes me feel vindicated in my own opinions> is really kind of petty.
 
Rooting for one segment of the franchise to "beat" another isn't particularly healthy or productive. I've seen a lot of it lately, and it makes me feel like Trek fandom is devolving into the immature ways of MCU and Star Wars fans. "I want this to fail just to stick it to <fans I don't agree with/ producers I don't like/ critics I hate / whatever else makes me feel vindicated in my own opinions> is really kind of petty.
Plus, these distinctions are largely in our Trekkie minds, the upper management at Paramount think of it all as "Star Trek". I doubt they worry all that much about pointless details like in what "century" their space show is set. They just care about how much it costs and if it's making money in the end. If one show falters, they're going to start having doubts about the entire enterprise.
 
Plus, these distinctions are largely in our Trekkie minds, the upper management at Paramount think of it all as "Star Trek". I doubt they worry all that much about pointless details like in what "century" their space show is set. They just care about how much it costs and if it's making money in the end. If one show falters, they're going to start having doubts about the entire enterprise.

Of course. It's simply a means to make money for them. It's not important to them whether they like the shows' contents or not, but that we do.
 
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