I loath Orteges!!

[fireproof78]

I disagree, if she spoke to any of the others like that she'd be disciplined, possibly sent to the academy with the other children.

Ok. That's fine.

Other people were snippy, quipped and sarcastic. So I have no issue with her interacting with other crews.

And if being sarcastic is being compared to being like a child I would advise not coming to my work, with a bunch of Master degree holding clinical staff quip with each other daily.

 

[HotRod]

McCoy was the crotchety uncle type, there to keep Kirk’s jaunty swagger in check. He had age and experience and a position that allowed him to remonstrate with the captain/provide input, and a long-standing friendship with Kirk that grounded his acerbic quips in affection.

Sounds like an excuse because you like McCoy but don't like Ortegas. He can get away with what is basically racism towards the first officer, but Ortegas can't be sarcastic and quippy.

 

[Tallguy]

I am almost loath to point out that you mean loathe.

I think she's great. As others have pointed out she's in the same tradition as Pavel Chekov and Bones McCoy. Or how about "So much for the little training cruise?"

She certainly doesn't seem any more out of line than Gary Mitchell.

The only time (for me) that her "quips" felt inappropriate was the whole "You gotta say the thing" exchange in this seasons opener. And frankly she was the least of the problems with the scene.

Otherwise she's in the long line of mid level characters who express "So this is it, we're going to die!" or some such.

And her pranking Uhura (and Pike's reaction to it) is still my favorite moment in SNW.

 

[ED-209]

And if being sarcastic is being compared to being like a child I would advise not coming to my work, with a bunch of Master degree holding clinical staff quip with each other daily.

Yes, but I'm guessing you don't work in military type setup?

 

[The Wormhole]

I like it when everyone gets conniptions about "blrgh and argh, Ortegas is too sarcastic and unprofessional. That would never be tolerated in the real military." Like LOL, wut? People in today's military are unprofessional, sarcastic and sometimes even downright rude all the time. The story I always pull out in these discussions involves the time Stargate SG-1 actor Richard Dean Anderson met General Michael Ryan, who was at the time the US Air Force Chief of Staff. RDA asked General Ryan "so are there any actual Colonels in the Air Force who act like O'Neill?" General Ryan sighed and answered "there are many Colonels who are exactly like O'Neill. And many more who are much worse." And then there's incidents where the military's unprofessional conduct has become public knowledge, like the time a US Navy pilot drew a penis in the sky.

Even funnier is the people who makes these sort of complaints about Ortegas are also the ones who argue Starfleet isn't a military. But that's none of my business.

 

[Unique]

Sounds like an excuse because you like McCoy but don't like Ortegas. He can get away with what is basically racism towards the first officer, but Ortegas can't be sarcastic and quippy.

His quips fit into a context that Ortegas doesn’t have, and I’d like to point out that I didn’t bring him up. Or Chekov.
This went from me simply stating I don’t care for the presentation of Ortegas’s character to being accused of implicitly approving of everything McCoy did/said.
If this is the kind of interaction I can expect here, it’s not worth it.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, but I'm guessing you don't work in military type setup?

No, but I have enough family members who served in the armed forces to know that sarcasm and talking back was part of the day to day. So, again, can I imagine Ortegas in a military type environment, especially as a pilot? Yup.

I like it when everyone gets conniptions about "blrgh and argh, Ortegas is too sarcastic and unprofessional. That would never be tolerated in the real military." Like LOL, wut? People in today's military are unprofessional, sarcastic and sometimes even downright rude all the time. The story I always pull out in these discussions involves the time Stargate SG-1 actor Richard Dean Anderson met General Michael Ryan, who was at the time the US Air Force Chief of Staff. RDA asked General Ryan "so are there any actual Colonels in the Air Force who act like O'Neill?" General Ryan sighed and answered "there are many Colonels who are exactly like O'Neill. And many more who are much worse." And then there's incidents where the military's unprofessional conduct has become public knowledge, like the time a US Navy pilot drew a penis in the sky.

Even funnier is the people who makes these sort of complaints about Ortegas are also the ones who argue Starfleet isn't a military. But that's none of my business.

Exactly so on all counts.

The military can be strict and regimented but it isn't always and different people can and do get sarcastic.

 

[The Wormhole]

The military can be strict and regimented but it isn't always and different people can and do get sarcastic.

Indeed, the military is not some cult that turns people into stiff and formal automatons. Those who serve has as varied personalities and attitudes as can be found in the civilian world.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

There's nothing wrong with Ortegas's haircut. People need to get over it and respect the choice of the actor. She likes it, so fucking suck it up or go home. It's Melissa Navia's choice and that's that.

Plus, she rocks it.

 

[Unique]

Indeed, the military is not some cult that turns people into stiff and formal automatons. Those who serve has as varied personalities and attitudes as can be found in the civilian world.

The point of the military code of conduct and much of their training is actually to create a culture and uniformity that will allow them to work together as efficiently as possible. It takes all those disparate individuals and makes them understandable and predictable to one another so that they can function as a working military. That doesn’t erase their individuality; it brings their conduct, both on and off-duty, up to a level where personal expression is simply not a priority. It’s all about the service and the mission.

 

[ED-209]

There's nothing wrong with Ortegas's haircut. People need to get over it and respect the choice of the actor. She likes it, so fucking suck it up or go home..

It's not that the actor has her hair like that it's that the character does, wear a wig - Starfleet has regulations for hair - Saavik says so in Star Trek II, I doubt "Teenage boy from the late 90s" is in the approved styles list.

Indeed, the military is not some cult that turns people into stiff and formal automatons. Those who serve has as varied personalities and attitudes as can be found in the civilian world.

Yes, but in the middle of a crisis? I doubt it. Point taken though.

 

[fireproof78]

I doubt "Teenage boy from the late 90s" is in the approved styles list.

Why not?

Indeed, the military is not some cult that turns people into stiff and formal automatons. Those who serve has as varied personalities and attitudes as can be found in the civilian world.

Indeed, yes. And if this command structure allows Ortegas the ability to due her job with her current attitude and be effective, which she has demonstrated time and again, I say there is room for variety. Certainly I have heard of far worse stories from my family members who served.

 

[DaveyNY]

Saavik says so in Star Trek II, I doubt "Teenage boy from the late 90s" is in the approved styles list.

She actually says about her hair ... "its within regulations, Admiral".

So anything from bald up to her freestyle is apparently OK with Star Fleet.



Ortega's pompadour-like hairstyle is actually very popular right now.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AB5stBjD24xu1Vexnvw58yXfc8zpnWrzrA:1689177438504&q=pompadour+haircut&tbm=isch&source=univ&fir=OiZYR3UwAV0XDM%2C7dDpQL-qwAB6OM%2C_%3B8VTkSrW_bR_MvM%2C543l_inWzC3miM%2C_%3BWgZlAFh-Ja5D1M%2Ch9SvOZd7GdenQM%2C_%3BxYV4mLSB1QvdlM%2CcXblawO9i3Md0M%2C_%3B_xkS0CTgdPC82M%2CVWD2ToRb6kbMMM%2C_%3Bf9ol7nPqD9gnBM%2CfZFa78EPb7-IzM%2C_%3BYkWHRY8dVgE9HM%2CE5iqUaB8OTIhhM%2C_%3BEYvHnXK8dJzRNM%2CiDhc12Lnu3IMeM%2C_%3B7Z8UkisS8TgiJM%2C1m-Ht33ttKaZkM%2C_%3BpNudmo0ekv8noM%2CB9etI7Jsy8XSXM%2C_%3Bhc8PHXFTiw1xjM%2CcXblawO9i3Md0M%2C_%3B-B-aBha22X6s0M%2CEaJPUvPj-4FXkM%2C_%3BYE5ke_P6Tf-7MM%2Cj3N3qnShEsKfuM%2C_%3BZJ3Rztb11VG39M%2CL_LC8SSkG47TKM%2C_%3BtW9UC2rXYnToxM%2CB9etI7Jsy8XSXM%2C_&usg=AI4_-kSjI0taFA5OZQQ-YLbdHe6UUm6emQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjb27ypxImAAxUbGlkFHd-nAmQQjJkEegQIGhAC&biw=1280&bih=617&dpr=3

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Starfleet has regulations for hair - Saavik says so in Star Trek II

And what are these nebulous regulations?

Does Saavik specifically say that a cropped hairstyle is against regulations?

Do you think Worf fits the regulations?

Or Beatles era Chekov?

Don't pretend Starfleet has one regulation haircut that everyone adheres to.

 

[Tallguy]

I doubt "Teenage boy from the late 90s" is in the approved styles list.

Why? Saints above they're letting these people wear PANTS now!

We're going to criticize Ortegas' hair but let the Captain's "Johnny Bravo" go unquestioned?

 

[Unique]

Does it often get this acrimonious this fast in here?

 

[fireproof78]

Does it often get this acrimonious this fast in here?

Yes, it does.

People get protective over their favorite Treks quickly, as well as the fact that a lot of the past several years has been saying that newer Trek is wrong for things done in past Trek. There's a measure of frustration.

 

[HotRod]

If this is the kind of interaction I can expect here, it’s not worth it.

I'm sorry, but you brought up that acting a certain way is not within Starfleet tradition. I pointed out multiple examples of it existing. You countered with what I felt was a poor excuse, which I pointed out.

Sorry, but If you don't want a discussion, stay off a discussion board.

 

[UssGlenn]

It's not that the actor has her hair like that it's that the character does, wear a wig - Starfleet has regulations for hair - Saavik says so in Star Trek II, I doubt "Teenage boy from the late 90s" is in the approved styles list.

Have you seen the standard Marine haircut? They don't have any hair on the sides either. Ortegas is a slightly more stylish version.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Love the hair. Kinda haircut you can set your watch to.

Not a fan of the character other than that. Early days though so they might still put a little depth to her beyond "cliche wisecrack pilot"