What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Macintosh]

Or, it’s much simpler: the SNW Enterprise will eventually be refit to basically become the TOS Enterprise, and that one will eventually be refit in its turn to become the TMP version.

I've heard this idea before and it stretches credibility given that it's 50% smaller. It'd be like refitting the Enterprise-D into the Enterprise-C.

(The only onscreen Trek to show the SNW version existing during the TOS 5-year mission is the comedy cartoon about the robot chasing the tardigrade all over the ship for twenty years and nobody noticing — which is fun and funny, but I can’t comprehend how anybody takes it seriously; it’s up there with the USS Ravenous where the kids eat nutritious tribbles.)

This is also the short that shows the Enterprise-A being destroyed at Genesis rather than the original Enterprise (with a wonky off-centre name and registry number too). I agree it can be safely ignored for being altogether too silly.

 

[fireproof78]

And I got another cosmic coincidence in my streaming: Enterprise's "The Expanse" followed by Deep Space 9's "Homefront - Paradise Lost". Both episodes where things get nasty, as the aliens no longer go against our intrepid adventurers in space, but rather commit terrorism against an unsuspecting planet Earth (which is usually absent from the series if we exclude Earth-like planets, holodeck simulations, time-travel episodes, flashbacks, and merely spoken references).

My controversial opinion? Again, Enterprise does it better than a fan-favorite show. In Enterprise it was an attack on a continental scale, with millions of deaths, including the sister of Tucker. You really get the point that things got bad, and that it's close and personal. In DS9, things are not so dire: just a mundane bomb attack and most of everything else was just a false-flag operation of people within Starfleet.

That's an interesting opinion though I think it misses the point of DS9's episode.

ENT did well addressing cultural concerns of the day. DS9 did well to play with thematic ideas of the world implications.

 

[herofhyrule]

I've heard this idea before and it stretches credibility given that it's 50% smaller. It'd be like refitting the Enterprise-D into the Enterprise-C.



This is also the short that shows the Enterprise-A being destroyed at Genesis rather than the original Enterprise (with a wonky off-centre name and registry number too). I agree it can be safely ignored for being altogether too silly.

It's heavily implied by the beginning and end that "Ephraim and Dot" is an in-universe short film, so any mistakes can be chalked up to whichever redshirt was put in charge of animating it.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Ephraim and Dot is entertaining faff, but there’s not much to it.

I could say that about most of the Short Treks. The best one is the Mars story with the school kids.

The rest of them I’ve seen, but I couldn’t tell you much about them.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Saru one, "Calypso" and the Mars one are probably my three favorites.

 

[Ovation]

The Saru one, "Calypso" and the Mars one are probably my three favorites.

Not a fan of Gilbert and Sullivan? Number One is not impressed.

 

[cooleddie74]

Them? Yes. That Short Trek? Not so much.

 

[FredH]

I've heard this idea before and it stretches credibility given that it's 50% smaller. It'd be like refitting the Enterprise-D into the Enterprise-C.

I don’t think anyone but very hard hardcores has paid much attention to ship lengths, which the productions seem to retcon often enough anyway and avoid saying in dialogue. It might appear on some background graphic, but Star Trek would hardly be the only space adventure production to completely ignore those. (I’m pretty sure Babylon 5 eventually established Minbari cruisers as being a mile or so long, despite there being clear onscreen data readouts in some episode of their being 300 meters long.). I expect that at the end of the day, in most people’s minds—including the producers’—the (non-Kelvinverse) Enterprise is about “Enterprise meters long”, whatever that is, about the length of an aircraft carrier (whatever that is).

 

[Sci]

And I got another cosmic coincidence in my streaming: Enterprise's "The Expanse" followed by Deep Space 9's "Homefront - Paradise Lost". Both episodes where things get nasty, as the aliens no longer go against our intrepid adventurers in space, but rather commit terrorism against an unsuspecting planet Earth (which is usually absent from the series if we exclude Earth-like planets, holodeck simulations, time-travel episodes, flashbacks, and merely spoken references).

My controversial opinion? Again, Enterprise does it better than a fan-favorite show. In Enterprise it was an attack on a continental scale, with millions of deaths, including the sister of Tucker. You really get the point that things got bad, and that it's close and personal. In DS9, things are not so dire: just a mundane bomb attack and most of everything else was just a false-flag operation of people within Starfleet.

I really don't think "The Expanse" and "Homefront" are comparable just because they both feature alien attacks on Earth. The entire point of "Homefront" is that it was a single bombing and that the real story is the conspiracy within Starfleet to overthrow the government. You might as well argue that When Harry Met Sally isn't as good as The Godfather because they both have important scenes where characters are disruptive in a restaurant.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This looks like TOS meets VOY. Or, more accurately, TOS meets Berman Trek.

Here's the thing a lot of you don't get: A lot of us were sick to death of the Rick Berman style of Star Trek long before it even ended.

You are not kidding. Further, the lack of a major life as part of general pop culture beyond its first-run years should stand as evidence for Berman Trek failing to resonate (culturally) on that scale.

The last thing I wanted when Star Trek returned to TV in 2017 was more "Star Trek like Ricky B used to make it!"

People were barely wanting more Berman-Trek when he was in charge of the franchise. Honestly, who would beg for more milquetoast-y, lifeless ST as delivered by Berman?

Alex Kurtzman is highly unlikely to reach a similar number of episodes.

One can only hope.

As far as cosmetically advanced prequels, it happens. And not just in Star Trek. Prometheus doesn't look like a prequel to Alien... and they were both directed by Ridley Scott!

Indeed, yet no one is complaining about it. What is quite hypocritical is the thankfully small number of people who claim TOS "does not fit" skip around the irrefutable fact that TNG's 1701 luxury liner could not possibly be the evolutionary future of ENT from the Berman era, and now with SNW (if its the same timeline), as the ships from both prequel series appear far more advanced (using the TOS detractors' argument).

 

[Lord Garth]

People were barely wanting more Berman-Trek when he was in charge of the franchise. Honestly, who would beg for more milquetoast-y, lifeless ST as delivered by Berman?

People on this board apparently. And YouTubers who insist that the Glory Days were TNG and DS9.

Anyway, I know that you and I are on the same page about not being fans of Rick Berman. Anything I like from that era, I credit to people he delegated to.

Indeed, yet no one is complaining about it. What is quite hypocritical is the thankfully small number of people who claim TOS "does not fit" skip around the irrefutable fact that TNG's 1701 luxury liner could not possibly be the evolutionary future of ENT from the Berman era, and now with SNW (if its the same timeline), as the ships from both prequel series appear far more advanced (using the TOS detractors' argument).

Well, like I've said: ENT is the one Star Trek series I flat-out don't like as a whole. So, I don't take that series into consideration for anything. And, like I've also said, while I don't dislike SNW, I'm not actually a fan of that series either.

When I say upthread about the SNW Enterprise, "It's not my favorite, not anywhere close, but I can live with it", does that sound like I'm super-enthusiastic about the ship to you? It's more like, "Meh. Whatever." I don't have any strong feelings about the DSC/SNW Enterprise one way or the other.

In contrast: I love the design of the USS Discovery, and I've never hidden that. And I like the Titan in Picard Season 3, even though I think the ship looks more like it belongs in 2301 than 2401.

 

[fireproof78]

People were barely wanting more Berman-Trek when he was in charge of the franchise. Honestly, who would beg for more milquetoast-y, lifeless ST as delivered by Berman?

The people who want Legacy.

 

[Lord Garth]

The people who want Legacy.

33 years as a fan, and (for me) I feel like it's the oddest Trekkie Coalition I've ever fallen into.

 

[fireproof78]

33 years as a fan, and (for me) I feel like it's the oddest Trekkie Coalition I've ever fallen into.

Wait until you find out the secret handshake.

 

[Citiprime]

And I got another cosmic coincidence in my streaming: Enterprise's "The Expanse" followed by Deep Space 9's "Homefront - Paradise Lost". Both episodes where things get nasty, as the aliens no longer go against our intrepid adventurers in space, but rather commit terrorism against an unsuspecting planet Earth (which is usually absent from the series if we exclude Earth-like planets, holodeck simulations, time-travel episodes, flashbacks, and merely spoken references).

My controversial opinion? Again, Enterprise does it better than a fan-favorite show. In Enterprise it was an attack on a continental scale, with millions of deaths, including the sister of Tucker. You really get the point that things got bad, and that it's close and personal. In DS9, things are not so dire: just a mundane bomb attack and most of everything else was just a false-flag operation of people within Starfleet.

I always took the Antwerp attack in "Homefront" as speaking to how something that in the present-day would seem "small" in the grander scheme of violence, but for a society that hasn't known crime or terrorism for generations it would be shocking and horrific. It plays into how even a quasi-Utopia like the Federation can be manipulated and tempted into bending its ideals if it gets scared enough. And Sisko's dad says that people on Earth haven't been as on edge over a possible Dominion invasion since the Borg attack.

The online reviewer SF Debris has made the argument in his videos that when you look at the 24th century Trek shows as a whole, the Battle of Wolf 359 is the equivalent of the September 11 attacks for the Star Trek universe. It's an incident that scars the psyche and forces a culture to re-evaluate its priorities in both good and bad ways. After that event, Starfleet becomes more militaristic, more concerned with defense than exploration, cranking out starship classes that are warships in everything but name, and the Federation as a society shifts.

 

[fireproof78]

The Siege did it better:

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[Enterprise1701]

I dunno. I really don't like the STO designs. They're fine for background ships I suppose, but for hero ships, not so much.

For my part, I would be very comfortable with a 25th century series set aboard a Glenn-class science ship in a way that the Crossfield just doesn't fulfill. (Assuming the shuttlebay door is actually closed by default.)

 

[FederationHistorian]

The people who want Legacy.

No.

 

[fireproof78]

No.

Oh, I'm sure that there is some overlap.

 

[somebuddyX]

And I got another cosmic coincidence in my streaming: Enterprise's "The Expanse" followed by Deep Space 9's "Homefront - Paradise Lost". Both episodes where things get nasty, as the aliens no longer go against our intrepid adventurers in space, but rather commit terrorism against an unsuspecting planet Earth (which is usually absent from the series if we exclude Earth-like planets, holodeck simulations, time-travel episodes, flashbacks, and merely spoken references).

My controversial opinion? Again, Enterprise does it better than a fan-favorite show. In Enterprise it was an attack on a continental scale, with millions of deaths, including the sister of Tucker. You really get the point that things got bad, and that it's close and personal. In DS9, things are not so dire: just a mundane bomb attack and most of everything else was just a false-flag operation of people within Starfleet.

What a strange comparison. "The Expanse" is like the prologue to an alien attack arc so surely you'd put it against something like "The Jem Hadar" or "Q Who?" And "Homefront/Paradise Lost" is an exploration of what price you pay for freedom, military intervention in a democratic government, and the loss of civil liberties, so it's companion are really "The Drumhead" and "Into Darkness"