What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[TREK_GOD_1]

Design so advanced that the various movie and series production teams including Roddenberry himself deliberately ignored, if not outright retconned, it until the 1990s?

Every class of hero Starfleet ships--from the TOS movies to TNG to VOY is based on what TOS created. There's no "retconning" when its deliberately designed to show an in-universe progression based on a standard, so you're ignoring how long-lasting franchises creating stories in chronological order work.

The word "seamlessly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

Funny, the viewers who were there to see the DS9 and ENT episodes found it a seamless integration with the then-current series. I cannot recall anyone saying "it does not fit " or complained about the TOS aesthetic or production standards.

There's a reason for that.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The fifth or sixth season is when most shows run out of stories.

..or in the case of most Berman-Trek series, right after the pilot with few exceptions.

God, that "TOS had cardboard sets!" myth needs to die already. They knew how to build sets out of wood in 1960s.

It is a case of trying to bury the past, particularly one that is still considered the best production with the greatest cultural footprint out of all ST series. That unavoidable realization must cut to the quick, because the saccharine-injected, lifeless versions to follow are either barely remembered (Berman-Trek), or spark waves of rejection amongst the fanbase (CBS era). As a result some need to fall back on long-debunked myths that fall on their face from a basic TV production perspective.

 

[MikHutch]

Controversial opinion: the bashing of post TOS Trek on this site is excessive

 

[fireproof78]

Funny, the viewers who were there to see the DS9 and ENT episodes found it a seamless integration with the then-current series. I cannot recall anyone saying "it does not fit " or complained about the TOS aesthetic or production standards.

The only reason it "fit" was because of the framing device.

I am still waiting for a full blown production to use the 60s era design and sets in an honest way, i.e. as the main set for a 2020s era production show.

Controversial opinion: the bashing of post TOS Trek on this site is excessive

Well, when TOS is held up as "god tier" in terms of cultural import, and recognizably the tendency to look down on this becomes more palatable.

 

[Doug Smith]

I feel the show never following up on General Order 7 about the Talos System was a missed opportunity.

 

[Sci]

While I understand that the correct usage by modern conventions is to refer to a ship directly by name rather than giving it a definite article, I strongly prefer using the definite article. If it were up to me, the "hero ships" of modern Star Trek would always be the Enterprise, the Discovery, the Titan, La Sirena, the Cerritos, the Protostar, and the Dauntless.

(La Sirena doesn't need to be called "the La Sirena" because la is already part of its name. I make an exception for the USS Voyager because, well, a "th" next to a "v" just sounds awful.)

 

[fireproof78]

I just call them ships.

 

[Paul755]

Controversial opinion: the bashing of post TOS Trek on this site is excessive

TOS is the easiest to bash, retcon, ignore, etc… because it’s the oldest series with more inconsistencies (since they were making stuff up as they went) and different production values. It’s easy to point at it and say “look at those silly guys from the 60’s”

In 20 years if whoever the new big boss of Trek is decides to reboot TNG, DS9 or Voyager you will see the same thing in regards to “those old series from the 1980’s/1990’s” from the people that grew up with Disco, SNW, Lower Decks and Academy plus whatever else comes down. I think the recasting of Janeway will be especially spicy.

 

[drt]

Well, again, they were probably just doing whatever sounded best to the ear.

I'm surprised the TOS writers & producers would get that wrong, though, as a lot of them had real world military experience. The TNG writers & beyond did not, except for Ron Moore, who went to military school, IIRC.

I recall most of the TOS guys were either Army or Army Air Corps/Air Force, maybe no one on the writing staff was Navy. Even if they did know, the civilian usage of “the” is so common, they probably just went with that because that’s what most expect to hear.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I recall most of the TOS guys were either Army or Army Air Corps/Air Force, maybe no one on the writing staff was Navy. Even if they did know, the civilian usage of “the” is so common, they probably just went with that because that’s what most expect to hear.

Didn't they usually use "the" before ship names in the Horatio Hornblower books? Maybe that's the real answer, since I understand those were a big influence on Gene Roddenberry.

 

[Shawnster]

So isn't it natural that a TV series made 60 years later is also going to look better and more realistic?

Yes.

Although it can also look both realistic and retro. Star Wars is doing that. Everything in their live action series looks lifted from the 70s, but doesn't look cardboard cutout.

Touch screens appear to be here to stay, but they are not practical in all situations. You must look at the screen to access the correct buttons or apps. Toggles, switches, and buttons can be manipulated in the dark with your eyes closed. In the old days of texting, people could send entire text messages while there phone was out of sight in their pocket.

SNW Enterprise could look sleek and futuristic with tactile controls. The TMP Enterprise bridge still looks futuristic despite being 44 years old.

 

[Macintosh]

Every class of hero Starfleet ships--from the TOS movies to TNG to VOY is based on what TOS created.

You're moving goalposts and invoking a straw man there. Your original point was that "TOS did not have anything approaching 'cardboard' sets". Nobody was discussing the design of the Enterprise itself. And even if we were, the design of the Enterprise both inside and out per Strange New Worlds as opposed to its appearance in TOS rather speaks against the "timelessness" of the TOS look and feel.

There's no "retconning" when its deliberately designed to show an in-universe progression based on a standard, so you're ignoring how long-lasting franchises creating stories in chronological order work.

Yes... the Klingon foreheads were definitely an in-universe progression based on a standard

Funny, the viewers who were there to see the DS9 and ENT episodes found it a seamless integration with the then-current series. I cannot recall anyone saying "it does not fit " or complained about the TOS aesthetic or production standards.

Well, I was there; and the only reason it worked was because they were specifically and explicitly referencing TOS. If they'd wandered onto a 1960s set from Lost in Space or Doctor Who and boggled at how advanced everything looked we'd have laughed ourselves silly, and if they'd tried to keep that look outside of specifically and explicitly referencing TOS it wouldn't and couldn't have possibly worked.

 

[Tallguy]

Design so advanced that the various movie and series production teams including Roddenberry himself deliberately ignored, if not outright retconned, it until the 1990s?

Um... Have you seen The Motion Picture? Or the five movies that followed it? They all took the TOS bridge and even mostly the order of the stations from TOS. Almost everything from the TMP models or sets has a TOS analog.

I was building my first 3D model of the TOS Enterprise when the Polar Lights 1:350 model of the TMP ship came out and friend brought his over for me to look at. I was astonished at how 1:1 the design was from the TOS ship. Everything was a little fancier and a little more art deco, but if it was on the TOS ship they carried it over to the TMP ship.

So that covers 1979-1987. So for THREE YEARS "series production teams including Roddenberry himself deliberately ignored". That's the TNG bridge that was never duplicated or updated from 1987-2023. Right? That everyone is currently going nuts over?

 

[Macintosh]

Um... Have you seen The Motion Picture? Or the five movies that followed it? They all took the TOS bridge and even mostly the order of the stations from TOS. Almost everything from the TMP models or sets has a TOS analog.

That's not what we're talking about though. The "circular bridge with stations around the outside, central command chair, forward helm station" concept is one thing. The TOS execution of it as an actual set is another. Or are you honestly claiming there's no visual difference between the bridge in TOS, the bridge in SNW, and the bridge in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country?

I was building my first 3D model of the TOS Enterprise when the Polar Lights 1:350 model of the TMP ship came out and friend brought his over for me to look at. I was astonished at how 1:1 the design was from the TOS ship. Everything was a little fancier and a little more art deco, but if it was on the TOS ship they carried it over to the TMP ship.

Again, not what we're talking about. The "saucer-secondary hull-nacelles" concept is one thing. The TOS execution of it is an actual starship design is another thing entirely. the TOS Enterprise is specifically invoked in-universe as a fun retro easter egg in a way no other starship design is, even other ship designs that are decades old. The Constitution refit design is 45 years old at this point. Why do you suppose its design is not used as a retro callback today in the same way that the TOS Enterprise interior and exterior were when they were relatively much younger in the 90s?

So that covers 1979-1987. So for THREE YEARS "series production teams including Roddenberry himself deliberately ignored". That's the TNG bridge that was never duplicated or updated from 1987-2023. Right? That everyone is currently going nuts over?

Also not what we're talking about. And while I may love the Enterprise-D to distraction, I'm also actually capable of critically appraising some of the execution in the final sets and understanding why it's not a universally perfect timeless design (it's beige FFS!).

 

[MikHutch]

TOS is the easiest to bash, retcon, ignore, etc… because it’s the oldest series with more inconsistencies (since they were making stuff up as they went) and different production values. It’s easy to point at it and say “look at those silly guys from the 60’s”

In 20 years if whoever the new big boss of Trek is decides to reboot TNG, DS9 or Voyager you will see the same thing in regards to “those old series from the 1980’s/1990’s” from the people that grew up with Disco, SNW, Lower Decks and Academy plus whatever else comes down. I think the recasting of Janeway will be especially spicy.

No, my point is people on this site act like TOS is the greatest ever and everything afterwards is trash. It's annoying

 

[Lord Garth]

TOS - I like it.
TNG - I like it for the most part.
DS9 - Don't like it as much as I used to. But I don't think it's trash.
VOY - I like it more than I used to. But I never thought it was trash. I just thought it could've been better.
ENT - This is the one Star Trek series I don't like. Still wouldn't go so far as to call it trash.
DSC - This is my favorite Star Trek series.
PIC - I actually like it better than TNG. <-- Controversial Opinion
SNW - I'm not that into it, but it's okay. Not trash.

Yeah, I know I left out the animated series. Not because I think they're trash but because I think I made my point.

Anyway... There are trash episodes, but I don't think there are any outright trash series.

 

[MikHutch]

TOS - I like it.
TNG - I like it for the most part.
DS9 - Don't like it as much as I used to. But I don't think it's trash.
VOY - I like it more than I used to. But I never thought it was trash. I just thought it could've been better.
ENT - This is the one Star Trek series I don't like. Still wouldn't go so far as to call it trash.
DSC - This is my favorite Star Trek series.
PIC - I actually like it better than TNG.
SNW - I'm not that into it, but it's okay. Not trash.

Yeah, I know I left out the animated series. Not because I think they're trash but because I think I made my point.

Anyway... There are trash episodes, but I don't think there are any outright trash series.

Tbh I've never seen a ranking quite like this

 

[UssGlenn]

Didn't they usually use "the" before ship names in the Horatio Hornblower books? Maybe that's the real answer, since I understand those were a big influence on Gene Roddenberry.

Im reading "Commodore Hornblower" right now. They did not put "the" before the ship names.

 

[Paul755]

No, my point is people on this site act like TOS is the greatest ever and everything afterwards is trash. It's annoying

gotcha…I misread your post. My point still remains though.

 

[Farscape One]

Anyway... There are trash episodes, but I don't think there are any outright trash series.

Completely agree with this part of your post, and liked it entirely due to this statement.