Seems like DS9 was heavily influenced by Dune

[SalyutBuran]

The Gemhidar are very similar to Sardukar warriors.

The dominion use the white in a similar way to how the spice is used as a means of control

bajor is the gateway to the galaxy, dune allows for all space travel to happen

Bajorans are similar to the fremen

the cardassians are very similar to the Harkonnen.

Kira's mother had an affair with Dukat, Baron harkonnen is the father of jessica atreides.

in dune paul is the product of arranged marriages, sisko's parents had their marriage arranged by the profits.

Paul sees visions of the future using the spice, sisko communicates with the wormhole aliens who also see into the future.

both sisko and paul were sent to their respective worlds as pseudo colonialists, both rejected their heritage and sided with the locals

 

[Poltargyst]

**Single eyebrow raise** Fascinating.

Actually I've never read Dune. My only experience with it is the 80's movie, and I haven't seen that since the 80's.

 

[Legate Duhmar]

Definitely see some similarities, especially the comparison you made between Paul and Siskos visions, but comparing the white to the spice is a bit of a stretch. The white is a simple command and control mechanism, spice is a much more powerful product and more integral to the story. Probably not a direct inspiration from Dune, but good question to pose to the writers perhaps. The parallel that always came to mind for me was the Incan empires use of coca leaves to both empower and addle their workforce.

As for the old "lone male who proves himself and sides with friendly outsiders" trope, thats such a staple of 19th and 20th century literature and was adapted into so many interations over the years that its a sub-genre of fiction. Again don't think Dune really comes into the picture directly for this one, its just a classic juxtaposition that creates natual dramatic tension.

As for the Bajorians and Cardassians being akin to Fremen/Harkonan, maybe there is a point there especially with the antagonists in both cases essentially using the protagonists planet to strip resources by force and both being ugly looking with their appearance personifing their cultural attitudes.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Most of that is a bit of a stretch to be honest.

But then again, Dune is one of those things that is an influence somehow on a great deal of sci-fi.

 

[somebuddyX]

DS9 might have similarities with Dune but I really doubt it influenced it with the things you're suggesting. All those things were built up over time and it's well documented what their inspirations or starting points in things are and some of them like "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night" where the Kira's mum/Dukat backstory originated started as completely different stories. The wormhole is straight out of "The Price" but here the wormhole actually works. The whole thing started out of Brandon Tartikoff's idea to spinoff TNG and basically do "The Rifleman" to TOS/TNG's "Wagon Train." It's the Old West town in space with Sisko and Jake as the newcomer and his son, Odo as the sheriff, Quark as the barkeep, and Kira and the Bajorans as the Indians. A lot of stuff was made up on the fly. Even the idea of who Bajor was subjugated by was different in the outline of "Ensign Ro" having it be under Romulan control.

 

[Takeru]

The Gemhidar are very similar to Sardukar warriors

Only in the way that they are loyal soldiers but the Sardaukar are super tough and disciplined warriors while the Jam Hadar are never portrayed as particularly great at fighting,.

The dominion use the white in a similar way to how the spice is used as a means of control

No! The white and spice are fundamentally different. The spice in Dune enhances senses, cognitive abilities, extends life and allows for visions of the future, it is used by all factions and is necessary for their society to function. The white is just a drug to enforce loyalty in one specific group.

bajor is the gateway to the galaxy, dune allows for all space travel to happen

Bajor is the on ramp to what amounts to a single space highway with exactly one off ramp. That makes it significant but it's not even remotely similar to the space enabling interstellar navigation (not space travel itself, they had that before the spice was discovered and the reliance on it for navigation is a choice, they could replace the navigators with machines if they wanted to).

Bajorans are similar to the fremen

In what way?

the cardassians are very similar to the Harkonnen.

I don't see it. They both function as antagonists but the Harkonnens are morally bankrupt, sadistic asswipes with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The Cardassians did some bad things but are much more multi layered and actually end the series fighting against a bigger enemy with the heroes.

Kira's mother had an affair with Dukat, Baron harkonnen is the father of jessica atreides.

Those are just two random facts.

in dune paul is the product of arranged marriages, sisko's parents had their marriage arranged by the profits.

Paul is the result of a millennia long breeding program, Sisko is the result of aliens playing matchmaker once and for completely different reasons. That is similar only on a very superficial level.

Paul sees visions of the future using the spice, sisko communicates with the wormhole aliens who also see into the future.

The wormhole aliens don't see into the future, they exist outside of time as we perceive it

both sisko and paul were sent to their respective worlds as pseudo colonialists, both rejected their heritage and sided with the locals

Paul was a member of a noble family in a feudal society, his family went to Arrakis to rule it, the inhabitants of Arrakis are all humans and the planet had been part of the empire for thousands of years, there was no colonization going on when Paul arrived there.
Sisko was a member of Starfleet and went to Bajor because Bajor applied to join the federation and explicitly invited starfleet for protection The federation was not there as pseudo colonialists.

 

[SalyutBuran]

You're conflating with "heavily influenced by" with a carbon copy.

Only in the way that they are loyal soldiers but the Sardaukar are super tough and disciplined warriors while the Jam Hadar are never portrayed as particularly great at fighting,.

Their role is a hyper elite kill force that everyone is scared of. Not a carbon copy.

No! The white and spice are fundamentally different. The spice in Dune enhances senses, cognitive abilities, extends life and allows for visions of the future, it is used by all factions and is necessary for their society to function. The white is just a drug to enforce loyalty in one specific group.

The drugs are both used as a mean of having power over people. you're going for carbon copy.

Bajor is the on ramp to what amounts to a single space highway with exactly one off ramp. That makes it significant but it's not even remotely similar to the space enabling interstellar navigation (not space travel itself, they had that before the spice was discovered and the reliance on it for navigation is a choice, they could replace the navigators with machines if they wanted to).

The point is in the story that each planet is the central hub of the galaxy/universe.

In what way?

Oppressed by a force trying to strip their planet to bones, both engaged in brutal guerilla warfare.

I don't see it. They both function as antagonists but the Harkonnens are morally bankrupt, sadistic asswipes with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

Paul and his mother are Harkonnens for what it is worth.

The Cardassians did some bad things but are much more multi layered and actually end the series fighting against a bigger enemy with the heroes.

Not a carbon copy,

Those are just two random facts.

Both Kira and Paul had their mothers violated in one way or another by the big bad psychopathic villain. It's random, but it isn't something to be ignored.

Paul is the result of a millennia long breeding program, Sisko is the result of aliens playing matchmaker once and for completely different reasons. That is similar only on a very superficial level.

Both were the products of a planned intercourse that would produce a prophet.

The wormhole aliens don't see into the future, they exist outside of time as we perceive it

Semantics.

Paul was a member of a noble family in a feudal society, his family went to Arrakis to rule it, the inhabitants of Arrakis are all humans and the planet had been part of the empire for thousands of years, there was no colonization going on when Paul arrived there.

Right he wasn't a colonialist, he was assigned to a mission out of obligation to his family/social hierarchy/title. Just as sisko went because of his title.

Sisko was a member of Starfleet and went to Bajor because Bajor applied to join the federation and explicitly invited starfleet for protection The federation was not there as pseudo colonialists.

The Maquis would adamantly disagree with you, and i'm sure more than a few bajoran would as well.



Like I said "pseudo colonialists"

They took on the role of colonizers, without actually being the thing.

And because they were reluctantly involved, they approached the natives in a strange way. Both loyal to their title and yet loyal to the people, it's a duality you don't see in dances with wolves/pochahontas/avatar/the last samuri whatever.

 

[Dukhat]

Actually, Deep Space Nine was heavily influenced by Babylon 5.

 

[somebuddyX]

Or it was just parallel thought.

 

[kkt]

Actually, Deep Space Nine was heavily influenced by Babylon 5.

Maybe Babylon 5 was heavily influenced by Dune?

 

[fireproof78]

The dominion use the white in a similar way to how the spice is used as a means of control

Yeah but it doesn't work the same. Drug addicted soldiers is not exactly new to science fiction. That one is a stretch.


The rest feel like two SF properties playing with the same tropes.

 

[Qonundrum]

The Gemhidar are very similar to Sardukar warriors.

The dominion use the white in a similar way to how the spice is used as a means of control

bajor is the gateway to the galaxy, dune allows for all space travel to happen

Bajorans are similar to the fremen

the cardassians are very similar to the Harkonnen.

Kira's mother had an affair with Dukat, Baron harkonnen is the father of jessica atreides.

in dune paul is the product of arranged marriages, sisko's parents had their marriage arranged by the profits.

Paul sees visions of the future using the spice, sisko communicates with the wormhole aliens who also see into the future.

both sisko and paul were sent to their respective worlds as pseudo colonialists, both rejected their heritage and sided with the locals

Great point! I wasn't a fan of "Dune" and didn't remember much of it, but it's very possible it was either an influence for the Jem Ha'dar if not more.

It's true that most modern works* are based on something that came before it. (Morbius = Frankenstein = (either bits of a work that came before, or a unique observation translated into a neat bit of fiction).

* circa relevant to the year in which they are made. Back in the day, the mid-90s were modern as well. Now they're just ancient history. Wheeeee! ​

Maybe that's a partial reason why DS9 worked when most re-uses of the same-old also happen to be reboots or reimaginings? Those that succeed made a similar trope feel like their own via a unique-feeling execution, and not as something that makes the viewer think "oh, that was done in ____" which often implies it was done better or more memorably the previous time? I knew of Frankenstein before Morbius, but Morbius still felt original and its own being rather than a bland robbery from a decades' old story used as a possible influence.(Never mind reboots, which have the added hurdle of using the same name as the original and that's when it really gets fun... but I digressarooney again...)

Which isn't to say reboots and all that always fail, that's just as much BS. Look at BSG, though the pros outweighed the con that the Cylons were no longer a creation of another species that hated the Capricans, rather than robots built by the Capricans that turned on their creators, which just felt like a lazy trope - and I say "trope" because it's been done to death, cookie cutter style, since the 1960s if not earlier. "I, Mudd" being an example from TOS. Blake's 7 had "Headhunter", which carries a bit of a twist that elevated it enough beyond the same-old "hey, our creations killed us. how original!" Even "The Orville" started out right enough and made it work with the trope via the big bombshell of buried skeletons. (But made it too big, as the episodes quickly show as well... but that's another story.))

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Both works are influence by the Barsoom stories, but Dune is closer to Barsoom than it is to DS9.

 

[at Quark's]

Yeah but it doesn't work the same. Drug addicted soldiers is not exactly new to science fiction. That one is a stretch.


The rest feel like two SF properties playing with the same tropes.

This. There are some superficial similarities, but they feel too remote for me to conclude that Dune was a direct and conscious influence on DS9. Of course DS9 still was indirectly influenced by it, as Dune held significant influence over SF in general and introduced (or at least popularized) the trope of worlds with their own complex politics and DS9 certainly inherited part of that.

 

[at Quark's]

I now half and half imagine Sisko going all-out against Eddington referring to that as kanly though.

 

[Poltargyst]

Actually, Deep Space Nine was heavily influenced by Babylon 5.

DS9 premiered before B5.

 

[Dukhat]

DS9 premiered before B5.

JMS pitched B5 to Paramount, which refused it. Although DS9 made it to the air first, B5 had been developed before that.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

JMS pitched B5 to Paramount, which refused it. Although DS9 made it to the air first, B5 had been developed before that.

Which means nothing. Even after noting that the similarities of the two shows are insignificant, JMS vigorously reworked his proposal after talking to Paramount and other studios. The original pilot script is available in JMS multi-volume Babylon 5 scripts, and there are significant differences between it and The Gathering,