What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Orphalesion]

The Argo scene sucks, not because of Stewart's wish fulfillment but because it made little sense in universe or the story.

Exactly, that was my point. The scene should be evaluated for what it is, whether it's good, and whether it fits into the rest of the movie and its universe. Not because somebody (no matter who) really, really wanted that scene or not.

I'm also not completely against actors suggesting or requesting things for their characters (Harrison Ford did some good stuff with Han Solo, for example), but if that turns out bad, then it turns out bad and is no different from any other bad decision made in a movie/show.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

There's an argument to be made that Patrick Stewart, while an amazing actor, does not have the best instincts about where to take Picard as a character. That Stewart was tired of doing the cerebral speech-maker from the TV series, and wanted a version of Picard that was "fighting and fucking." And once the movies began he had the clout to insist on it as a condition of doing them.

Also, this became an issue when doing Picard too, where reportedly his conditions for doing it were:

1. No Enterprise
2. No uniforms
3. Not a TNG reunion

If you look at season 3 of Picard, it basically throws all of that out of the window…

Except Season 1 features the Enterprise D, Stewart wears a uniform in a flashback and Picard is reunited with members of the TNG crew.

By his own admission, Stewart’s stipulations were thrown out pretty much as production on Season 1 began.

 

[Farscape One]

Except Season 1 features the Enterprise D, Stewart wears a uniform in a flashback and Picard is reunited with members of the TNG crew.

By his own admission, Stewart’s stipulations were thrown out pretty much as production on Season 1 began.

To be fair, the Enterprise-D only featured in that dream scene with Data at the very beginning of the first episode, and Picard only wore a uniform in the flashback. Riker and Troi appeared in one episode with him, with Riker appearing briefly in a scene over the viewscreen in the season 1 finale.

I don't think Stewart's wishes were completely thrown out the window like it was in season 3.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I don’t think his wishes were ever thrown out of the window… I think he started from wanting one thing and during the creative process, things changed.

 

[Tallguy]

What say do we have?

The box office of Nemesis?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Okay, here's a controversial Star Trek opinion that should stir some people up...

I don't think there was much of anything to PIC S3 besides empty fan service.

Spoiler: SPOILERS for PIC S3

Picard and Beverly Crusher's previously unmentioned son (repeating story elements from both TWOK and that S7 TNG ep "Bloodlines"), Captain Shaw's backstory being a virtual repeat of Sisko's (Oh wow! He hates Picard because he was in a ship at Wolf 359! We've NEVER seen that before! ), the Enterprise-D being reconstructed, the surprise returns of Ro Laren and Elizabeth Shelby only to see them both abruptly killed off, a repeat of the Changeling arc from the final seasons of DS9, Amanda Plummer's underwhelming villain whose name I can't even remember, resurrecting Data six ways to Sunday, ever more Borg stuff that largely contradicted S2 of PIC, the climax being all of Starfleet gathered together near Earth & fighting off the Borg, going out with yet another poker game scene... Most everything seemed to be a repeat or a variation of something we've seen before instead of carrying things forward.

I finished the season a little over two months ago, and I already barely remember half of it. It was just empty calories, like gorging yourself on ice cream. I had my problems with seasons 1 and 2 of PIC as well, but at least they both tried to do new things and reveal new aspects of Jean-Luc Picard. S3 seemed content just to do "Star Trek's Greatest Hits" and it was disappointing to see so many fans just unquestionably lap it up and ask for more.

<Lights match, drops it on trail of gasoline, and walks away as the BBS explodes behind me>

 

[Tallguy]

For whatever reason I just don't believe the people in any season of Picard. Almost none of it feels like Starfleet or even Star Trek.

I'm quite frankly astonished at the fans who HATED 1 and 2 that somehow think that 3 made it all better. What? How?!? You can't just buy me off with Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner homages.

Spoiler

I'm baffled by the glowing praise that Shaw gets. He's the second coming of Jellico if Jellico was never actually good at anything.

They were watchable-ish. I don't think Stewart was all that good in this.

 

[fireproof78]

The box office of Nemesis?

True, but we don't decide what's in the movie. Only our reaction to it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'm quite frankly astonished at the fans who HATED 1 and 2 that somehow think that 3 made it all better. What? How?!? You can't just buy me off with Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner homages.

A lot of fans just like their nostalgia buttons pushed. I saw the exact same thing at work when The Force Awakens came out in 2015. Like PIC S3, it also repeated a lot of things that Star Wars had done before and brought back fan favorite characters to rapturous response from much of the fandom. But I think that's what most of the SW fanbase wanted at that point after the disappointment of the prequels 10 years before.

 

[Shawnster]

For whatever reason I just don't believe the people in any season of Picard. Almost none of it feels like Starfleet or even Star Trek.

Is that because it's not Berman era Trek?

Don't get me wrong. I understand where you are coming from. I'm right there with you. Season 1 was just "meh" for me, Season 2 started strong for me then sank when they went back in time to the 21st Century. Season 3 was the best for me but it's missing something.

So I'm trying to sort it out for myself too. I don't think it's Berman and Braga's absence though. I think Trek is best with a slow simmer. These seasons were too short, too frenetic, too over the top with dramatic stakes. I think it's because Trek works best when it's about the trek, the journey. It's better as a marathon, not a sprint.

I really like SNW but I have the same complaint. I'm not given enough time to relax and enjoy the characters and stories. The season is too short. There is not much of a trek. But at least Season 1 was not an intense fate of the galaxy focus.

 

[Tallguy]

Is that because it's not Berman era Trek?

No. I'm a TOS guy.

I really like SNW but I have the same complaint. I'm not given enough time to relax and enjoy the characters and stories. The season is too short. There is not much of a trek. But at least Season 1 was not an intense fate of the galaxy focus.

I don't feel this way on SNW. I still feel like these are grown ups with jobs. They might not be as buttoned down as on TOS or even TNG. But they still feel like part of a whole. I got the feeling through three seasons of Picard that almost everything sucks now.

And honestly, I might undersell how good / not good the stories on SNW are (they're good, right?) because I just love spending time with these characters SO much.

 

[fireproof78]

And honestly, I might undersell how good / not good the stories on SNW are (they're good, right?) because I just love spending time with these characters SO much.

Yup. SNW gives me that great atmosphere of a place I want to be. I had it with TOS, DSC and a little bit with Prodigy. I don't just enjoy the stories but want to work there.

 

[Commander Troi]

I enjoyed all 3 seasons of PIC as I was watching them. But in retrospect:

I enjoyed Rios in both seasons 1 and 2 - I just like the character (and his holo-selves).

In season 1, I liked Soji and her relationship with Picard quite a lot and was disappointed they didn't follow up on it. I didn't like the Romulans behaving so... un-Romulan. Something about it just didn't sit right with me. I could've lived without Another Damn Soong (even though Brent's always fun to watch). The planet of synthetics and The Intelligence From Beyond were cool ideas, but they didn't stick the landing(s) and, once again, I'd have liked to have seen some follow up later.

In season 2, I enjoyed the Jurati/Borg Queen stuff, partially because Pill did *such* a good job, and because it was different and interesting to me. Once again, I could've lived without Another Damn Soong. I didn't have as much problem with the 21st century stuff as most people seemed to, and actually enjoyed Seven and Raffi trying to adjust. I was very disappointed that Q's "plot" just didn't make sense. However, the last scenes with Q and Picard were beautiful.

Spoiler

In season 3, I really enjoyed Raffi and Worf because they were just hella fun (Dorn is my MVP for S3). I was originally happy to see some fallout/follow up from the Dominion War, but then they threw that away for Another Damn Borg Threat. I enjoyed a lot of the nostalgia (I'll admit it). I couldn't quite buy "Beverly got knocked up and disappeared" - I'd like to believe we'll have better birth control by then! Jack... just didn't work. All the build-up seemed to going somewhere cool and then it wasn't cool at all. I'd also have preferred he stuck with his guns and didn't join Starfleet. (No shade on either Gates or Ed - they did great with what they had to work with.) I love Stashwick and what he did with the role - but once again, his character started out as interesting but then just sort of petered out. I liked several members of the Titan crew, including Sydney. With the benefit of a bit of hindsight, I was okay with them renaming the Titan when I watched it, but not so much now.

 

[1001001]

I enjoyed all 3 seasons of PIC as I was watching them. But in retrospect:

I enjoyed Rios in both seasons 1 and 2 - I just like the character (and his holo-selves).

In season 1, I liked Soji and her relationship with Picard quite a lot and was disappointed they didn't follow up on it. I didn't like the Romulans behaving so... un-Romulan. Something about it just didn't sit right with me. I could've lived without Another Damn Soong (even though Brent's always fun to watch). The planet of synthetics and The Intelligence From Beyond were cool ideas, but they didn't stick the landing(s) and, once again, I'd have liked to have seen some follow up later.

In season 2, I enjoyed the Jurati/Borg Queen stuff, partially because Pill did *such* a good job, and because it was different and interesting to me. Once again, I could've lived without Another Damn Soong. I didn't have as much problem with the 21st century stuff as most people seemed to, and actually enjoyed Seven and Raffi trying to adjust. I was very disappointed that Q's "plot" just didn't make sense. However, the last scenes with Q and Picard were beautiful.

Spoiler

In season 3, I really enjoyed Raffi and Worf because they were just hella fun (Dorn is my MVP for S3). I was originally happy to see some fallout/follow up from the Dominion War, but then they threw that away for Another Damn Borg Threat. I enjoyed a lot of the nostalgia (I'll admit it). I couldn't quite buy "Beverly got knocked up and disappeared" - I'd like to believe we'll have better birth control by then! Jack... just didn't work. All the build-up seemed to going somewhere cool and then it wasn't cool at all. I'd also have preferred he stuck with his guns and didn't join Starfleet. (No shade on either Gates or Ed - they did great with what they had to work with.) I love Stashwick and what he did with the role - but once again, his character started out as interesting but then just sort of petered out. I liked several members of the Titan crew, including Sydney. With the benefit of a bit of hindsight, I was okay with them renaming the Titan when I watched it, but not so much now.

No spoilers for Picard Season 3!

You can’t openly discuss episode one until August, the finale until October. There’s a pinned thread at the top of the forum regarding spoiler policy.

Thanks

 

[Commander Troi]

No spoilers for Picard Season 3!

You can’t openly discuss episode one until August, the finale until October. There’s a pinned thread at the top of the forum regarding spoiler policy.

Thanks

Sorry! I forgot which thread I was in!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There's an argument to be made that Patrick Stewart, while an amazing actor, does not have the best instincts about where to take Picard as a character. That Stewart was tired of doing the cerebral speech-maker from the TV series, and wanted a version of Picard that was "fighting and fucking." And once the movies began he had the clout to insist on it as a condition of doing them.

Also, this became an issue when doing Picard too, where reportedly his conditions for doing it were:

1. No Enterprise
2. No uniforms
3. Not a TNG reunion

If you look at season 3 of Picard, it basically throws all of those conditions out the window, while also reversing everything season 1 intended to do. They didn't want the show to be a TNG reunion. Its become a TNG reunion. When you couple that with season 3 reversing the death of Data in season 1, gets rid of most of the characters from season 1, and had Riker and Troi making fun of their circumstances in season 1, it sorta seems like the powers that be, as well as Stewart, knew how a huge chunk of the audience reacted to the first two seasons and were purposely going the other way.

Spoiler: ST:PIC S3 Spoilers

He sure got "plenty of sex" with Beverly over the years off-screen ^_-

And plenty of fighting within the show.

Now for him & Orla Brady's character to have a young ½ Romulan / ½ Human child of Laris & Picard.


This way we can have the 3 Siblings who are all related to each other as ½ Siblings.

Wesley Crusher, son of Beverly Howard & Jack R.Crusher,
Jack Crusher, son of Beverly Crusher (née Howard) & Jean-Luc Picard
The future (½ Romulan, ½ Human) child of Laris & Jean-Luc Picard

 

[Ovation]

He sure got "plenty of sex" with Beverly over the years off-screen ^_-

And plenty of fighting within the show.

Now for him & Orla Brady's character to have a young ½ Romulan / ½ Human child of Laris & Picard.

Spoiler

This way we can have the 3 Siblings who are all related to each other as ½ Siblings.

Wesley Crusher, son of Beverly Howard & Jack R.Crusher,
Jack Crusher, son of Beverly Crusher (née Howard) & Jean-Luc Picard
The future (½ Romulan, ½ Human) child of Laris & Jean-Luc Picard

I didn’t know someone was planning a My Three Sons revival.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I didn’t know someone was planning a My Three Sons revival.

Spoiler: ST:PIC S3 Spoilers

A nice 20-30 year age gap between each child would be interesting to see.
By 2401, Wesley Crusher would be 53 y/o
Wil Wheaton being 51 y/o IRL isn't a far cry to portray a 53 y/o Wesley Crusher.

By 2401, Jack Crusher would be 20 y/o.
35 y/o Ed Speleers portraying a 20 y/o is "Stretching It" (Definitely Dawson Casting).

By 2402/2403 we could have a young toddler for Laris, JLP, & Beverly to look after while a Time-Traveling Adult Future version of said child comes back in time like "Future Trunks" from DBZ to avert a potential disaster. This allows you to cast a 20-30 y/o to portray the "Future" iteration of said child.

 

[Paul Weaver]

No spoilers for Picard Season 3!

You can’t openly discuss episode one until August, the finale until October. There’s a pinned thread at the top of the forum regarding spoiler policy.

Thanks

 

[Orphalesion]

I feel like I'm incapable of making a of making an objective judgment on the quality of PIC, from the parts I've seen of Season 1 there was some good in it, but certain aspects of the the show just rendered it unwatchable for me personally. So I feel like I'm so miffed about that, that I'm simply unable to make my mind up about the actual quality of the story telling.
But I will say that I'm very disappointed about how completely superfluous Elnor ended up being (from what I've seen/heard/read of the first two seasons) Because Elnor is one of the few characters in the show I was interested in.
And I don't want to screech "it's NOT Trek!!!" but when it comes down, to my personal opinion, I think there are aspects of the show that I still wouldn't have liked in a non-Star Trek show, but that I simply couldn't accept in a Star Trek show.

Spoiler

I'm baffled by the glowing praise that Shaw gets. He's the second coming of Jellico if Jellico was never actually good at anything.

Spoiler

You'd be surprised how much of a fandom Jellico seems to have. He speaks to the jingoism in certain people