Why wasn't Sisko promoted at the start of Season 3?

[Oddish]

But (unfortunately) all to soon, he simply becomes a rubber stamp officer, Janeway's lap dog, permitted his animal spirit guides, his own little adventures but not much more than that. I call that loss of potential.

As do I.

That's an important growth point, not to be underestimated. But if that's all there's to show for 7 years, it's kind of meagre.

For a character with Harry's potential, it's kind of crap. And the lack of promotion was a deliberate and unnecessary insult.

That tells me Behr was the one more on board with Sisko getting promoted. And to give Brooks more free reign.

Avery Brooks preferred the bald/goatee look, but he had just sported it on "Spenser For Hire" as Hawk, and he was kind of iconic. So when be played Sisko, they wanted him to look different. Once Sisko was more established, they let him look the way he wanted to look.

 

[Farscape One]

Avery Brooks preferred the bald/goatee look, but he had just sported it on "Spenser For Hire" as Hawk, and he was kind of iconic. So when be played Sisko, they wanted him to look different. Once Sisko was more established, they let him look the way he wanted to look.

Agreed. But I just look at the timing of when Behr took the reigns of DS9 more fully and when Sisko started wearing the goatee, and it's hard to ignore how quick that change was.

Plus, I know Behr was an advocate of Brooks because I remember an interview he did where he said that he saw Brooks perform on stage (I think the name of it was "Tamburlaine") and said he went back to the writers' room and told them they really were doing him a disservice by not giving him more to do. (Or words to that effect.) I lean toward Behr being the one who helped grease whatever wheels were needed to help Brooks to start sporting his look.

 

[Oddish]

The Deep Space 9 Companion describes how Ira and Avery put together a major strategy for convincing the bigwigs that a bald Sisko would be a good thing. But as it happened, they were pretty much fine with the change by then.

I co fess that as a Spenser fan, it gave me a few WTF moments, though.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

where he said that he saw Brooks perform on stage (I think the name of it was "Tamburlaine")

It was Paul Robeson.

 

[Dee1891]

For a character with Harry's potential, it's kind of crap. And the lack of promotion was a deliberate and unnecessary insult.

The only character who had received a genuine promotion was Tuvok, which is odd considering that he had started the series as a lieutenant-commander but was demoted by the writers to First Lieutenant without any explanation. Paris got demoted from lieutenant j.g. to ensign and it took him over a year-and-a-half to regain his old rank. Otherwise, no one else got promoted during "Voyager".

And this doesn't excuse why Sisko wasn't a captain from the beginning of "Deep Space Nine". Come to think of it, his pattern of promotion followed (or almost followed) that of Michael Burnham of "Discovery". Like Sisko, she began as a commander, lost her rank completely before regaining it by the end of the show's Season 1. Like Sisko, she was finally promoted to captain by the end of her series' third season. And like Sisko, she was portrayed by an African-American actor/actress. They are the only two leading characters in a Trek live-action production that experienced this.

 

[Farscape One]

It was Paul Robeson.

Yes! That was it. Thanks for the correction.

 

[fireproof78]

And this doesn't excuse why Sisko wasn't a captain from the beginning of "Deep Space Nin

His being in command of a smaller post does.

ETA: and this is not a besmirching of Sisko or his assignment. In Trek, space stations and terrestial bases were commonly commanded by commanders, including Hutchison (TNG), Branch (TMP), and Quinteros (TNG). So it was perfectly in line with Starfleet at the time.

 

[Farscape One]

The only character who had received a genuine promotion was Tuvok, which is odd considering that he had started the series as a lieutenant-commander but was demoted by the writers to First Lieutenant without any explanation. Paris got demoted from lieutenant j.g. to ensign and it took him over a year-and-a-half to regain his old rank. Otherwise, no one else got promoted during "Voyager".

And this doesn't excuse why Sisko wasn't a captain from the beginning of "Deep Space Nine". Come to think of it, his pattern of promotion followed (or almost followed) that of Michael Burnham of "Discovery". Like Sisko, she began as a commander, lost her rank completely before regaining it by the end of the show's Season 1. Like Sisko, she was finally promoted to captain by the end of her series' third season. And like Sisko, she was portrayed by an African-American actor/actress. They are the only two leading characters in a Trek live-action production that experienced this.

I would have preferred Sisko start as a captain, too. But considering his journey of a very grief stricken father raising a son alone, his being ready to resign in the pilot, and was a Lt. Commander on board the Saratoga barely 3 years prior to "EMISSARY", I can understand him being a Commander to start. Plus, DS9 was a backwater assignment until the wormhole was discovered. If it was found before, Sisko almost certainly wouldn't have been assigned because he was not fully committed to Starfleet at that point and there would have been a much greater Starfleet presence, necessitating a captain or above.

(I never liked the idea that Riker got to full Commander so quickly by the pilot of TNG.)

Burnham was about to become a captain in the pilot of DISCO, given the conversation between her and Georgiou. She threw that away when she attempted a mutiny. Again, very understandable.

 

[Oddish]

The only character who had received a genuine promotion was Tuvok, which is odd considering that he had started the series as a lieutenant-commander but was demoted by the writers to First Lieutenant without any explanation. Paris got demoted from lieutenant j.g. to ensign and it took him over a year-and-a-half to regain his old rank. Otherwise, no one else got promoted during "Voyager".

No one was demoted except Paris in "Thirty Days" (aside from the Equinox's survivors). Tuvok was called "lieutenant" despite having LCDR pips on his collar, suggesting that it was a costuming error. And also, Paris's restoration to lieutenant rank in "Unimatrix Zero" was very much a promotion. He walked onto the bridge an ensign, he left it a lieutenant.

No, Harry's complaint was legitimate, as were the complaints that undoubtedly came in from viewers during the season break. And of course, the showrunners responded by clinging to their decision like a screaming toddler who's picked up someone else's teddy and is insisting that "it's MINE!" And it still goes on today, as every attempt to show in canon that Harry had a successful Starfleet career despite this massive setback... hits a wall.

(I never liked the idea that Riker got to full Commander so quickly by the pilot of TNG.)

If they had gone by what was implied at the beginning (by the fact that Jonathan Frakes was 34 when he appeared in "Encounter"), it was fine. In the wet navy, 15 years is the norm for making Commander, so it's reasonable that an exceptional officer could do it in 12.

 

[Jayson1]

The only character who had received a genuine promotion was Tuvok, which is odd considering that he had started the series as a lieutenant-commander but was demoted by the writers to First Lieutenant without any explanation. Paris got demoted from lieutenant j.g. to ensign and it took him over a year-and-a-half to regain his old rank. Otherwise, no one else got promoted during "Voyager".

And this doesn't excuse why Sisko wasn't a captain from the beginning of "Deep Space Nine". Come to think of it, his pattern of promotion followed (or almost followed) that of Michael Burnham of "Discovery". Like Sisko, she began as a commander, lost her rank completely before regaining it by the end of the show's Season 1. Like Sisko, she was finally promoted to captain by the end of her series' third season. And like Sisko, she was portrayed by an African-American actor/actress. They are the only two leading characters in a Trek live-action production that experienced this.

Tuvok was never really demoted. That was just a mistake by the wardrobe people or someone like that. As for Sisko their use to be this idea space stations were commanded by commanders or Admirals. Also character wise it simply made sense. It's away to separating the character from Picard. It shows how his career has stalled because he still hasn't gotten over the grief of wife. Also Deep Space Nine wasn't suppose to be a plum assignment.

As for Burnham the show wasn't suppose to be like past Trek's were lot of the action is focused on the bridge. They wanted the show to be more of a Lower Decks approach to the characters. Of course lots of those ideas were lost when they fired Fuller. Also Kelvinverse movies didn't start of with a focus on a Captain. Kirk goes from cadet to Captain in the span of the first movie. Picard started out with a focus on a retired Captain in Picard. Rios who was the Captain was the co-star. Also the cartoons shouldn't be dismissed for being cartoons. Both shows are good.

 

[kkt]

Being "only" a commander is a stalled career? wow.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Being "only" a commander is a stalled career? wow.

Being a commander is also no shame. The idea that Sisko was inferior came when Voyager was introduced.

 

[fireproof78]

Being "only" a commander is a stalled career? wow.

Unfortunately, Star Trek has created and sustained the mythology of the only way to be successful is being in Starfleet and a captain.

 

[Oddish]

We're actually not sure how the ranks work in Starfleet. In the US Navy, all promotions below lieutenant are effectively automatic; an officer would have to be utterly inept to top out at LTJG, the way Picard did in "Tapestry".

If the percentage of officers who get promoted is lower at each level, captains might be rare indeed.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

If the percentage of officers who get promoted is lower at each level, captains might be rare indeed.

There might be enough new ships, bases etc coming online each year that Starfleet can afford to not have the "up and out" policy of many Western militaries (particularly US forces) and they might have slightly more Captain billets than IRL naval forces due to the "every starship commander is a captain" thing, but IMO some degree of drop in billets between junior officers and commanding officers and even more so flag officers is inevitable.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

We're actually not sure how the ranks work in Starfleet. In the US Navy, all promotions below lieutenant are effectively automatic; an officer would have to be utterly inept to top out at LTJG, the way Picard did in "Tapestry".

If the percentage of officers who get promoted is lower at each level, captains might be rare indeed.

However ranks work, Sisko was every bit the commanding officer of DS9 as Picard and Janeway were of their respective ships

 

[Farscape One]

However ranks work, Sisko was every bit the commanding officer of DS9 as Picard and Janeway were of their respective ships

Incorrect.

Sisko was better.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Incorrect.

Sisko was better.

Please imagine the Sisko toasting GIF.

 

[fireproof78]

Incorrect.

Sisko was better.

At what?

 

[Farscape One]

At what?

Leadership. Fatherhood. He was more approachable with his crew. Tactics. Growth.

(I am a bit biased, as Sisko is my favorite captain. However, I stand by my assertion and the reasons.)