What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Nothing shown has contradicted anything except a timeline. Literally the objection is over one appearance of the Gorn.
It's the Neo-Angevin EmpirePerhaps in the Trek universe, the proposed Franco-British Union actually came into existence, perhaps in 1940 or 1956, or even at a later date?
You have not experienced Lower Decks until you have seen it in the original Klingon.
The United Republic of Great Britain and France (Remixed Club Version).
False equivalence, we've seen how Romulans and Klingons reproduce but nothing in canon about how Gorn do.
I will grant you Deltans could pop out of someone's chest. Ocampa come out of the back.
I'm not feeling it with the Gorn. I'll stick to Xenomorphs and watch Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, and Prometheus instead. Fuck Alien vs. Predator (both of them). No rush to re-watch Alien: Covenant either.
When I was 18, I watched all (then) four Alien movies in a row, back-to-back-to-back-to-back. Then I had a nightmare about a Xenomorph bursting through my chest. Good Times.
When I was 18, I watched all (then) four Alien movies in a row, back-to-back-to-back-to-back. Then I had a nightmare about a Xenomorph bursting through my chest. Good Times.
A really easy way to reconcile the Gorn of "All Those Who Wander" with the Gorn of "Arena" and LD, and with the Gorn of "In A Mirror Darkly, Part II," would be to reveal that the creatures in "All Those Who Wander" were in fact Gorn-engineered bioweapon incapable of sentience, rather than the Gorn themselves. This would have the benefit of also solving the ethical quandry of nobody in the landing party being concerned with the fact that they had to kill a sentient species infant to survive.
To be clear: I have no issue with finding out that Gorn have a complex life cycle and tons of other stuff that we never knew about from our single encounter with the species. The sky is nearly the limit. It's be like meeting (for example) Ted Cassidy and concluding that all humans must be a lot like him.
I can square up the Gieger-esque monsters, the CGI Enterprise dude, and Man In Suit. No problem. Presumably a big planet they're from.
My issue is that pretty much one of the ONLY things we know about the Gorn is that before Arena nobody (almost nobody?) had ever heard of them. I was even on board with La'an's statement that "Lots of people have met the Gorn, just none of them have lived."
Making them a huge known threat or even just "They're the folk that took out several Fed ships and killed the chief engineer of the USS Enterprise" makes Jimmy boy seem more than a bit uninformed. At least.
You know, I'm STILL asking the question now "Why didn't we hear way more about these things in TOS?!?"
I can square up the Gieger-esque monsters, the CGI Enterprise dude, and Man In Suit. No problem. Presumably a big planet they're from.
My issue is that pretty much one of the ONLY things we know about the Gorn is that before Arena nobody (almost nobody?) had ever heard of them. I was even on board with La'an's statement that "Lots of people have met the Gorn, just none of them have lived."
Making them a huge known threat or even just "They're the folk that took out several Fed ships and killed the chief engineer of the USS Enterprise" makes Jimmy boy seem more than a bit uninformed. At least.
You know, I'm STILL asking the question now "Why didn't we hear way more about these things in TOS?!?"
I asked that about Arena. It's pretty much a bullshit species to suddenly drop in when they're like "Oh, no Federation You were totally in our territory which is why we killed everyone."
Except I don't think that quite lines up with the episode. Only that the area of space is unknown.
Easily my favourite Trek movie. Only First Contact comes close.
In the game Star Fleet Battles (Amarillo Design Bureau, based on the works of Franz Joseph), the Gorn were among the major players in the galaxy.
Federation
Romulan
Klingon
Gorn
Tholian
Kzinti
The ISC (Interstellar Consortium, Andromedans)
Lyrans
Hydrans
Wyn Coalition
I've been thinking about this, and here's my takeaway. If "storytelling beats canon", then, it has to be asked:
- Is the new story being told actually better than the old story that would be contradicted by it?
- Is it impossible to tell this new story without said contradiction?
If the answers to both of those questions are "No", then what he says sounds good, but he's really just being lazy. I'd feel differently if I was giving SNW episodes all 9s and 10s out of 10. But that's not the case.
So, as far as I'm concerned, Akiva Goldsman's stance cuts both ways. If he thinks he can tell a better story by contradicting others, then I hope he realizes that one day some other Showrunner could decide to do the same with his stories and contradict those.
Discovery's ending and, in its place, my "allegiance" is with Picard & Legacy. When they refer back to TOS in PIC, like I said before, I picture TOS. So, in my eyes, TOS has primacy. Not SNW.
I think SNW is a nice, alternate take on the TOS Era. Like DSC Season 2, it makes me appreciate Pike as more of a character in his own right than just The Captain Before Kirk. But I don't view SNW as the Definitive Version of the 23rd Century.
Fitting that I should come to this conclusion in the Controversial Opinions Thread.
The Alien Quadrilogy is my third favorite film series behind the first six Star Trek movies and the Back to the Future Trilogy. So I tend not to look at ripping off Alien very favorably.
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Because the originals are sacred canon and must be referenced at all costs.
So says the fan base.
for something like Picard or Lower Decks…yeah because they are sequels.
For a prequel like SNW…that in some instances is re-writing “Trek history…I don’t think that’s necessary. And something like an alternate universe gives them much more freedom without having to put up with the canon, continuity, whatever complaints.
It's not necessary but it feels necessary because change, any change brings backlash.
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