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DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

Captain America was made relevant, there's absolutely no way Superman can't be.

I'm also still a little thunderstruck by the naked disrespect in such a major (fortunately now-protected) spoiler earlier.
 
I'm also still a little thunderstruck by the naked disrespect in such a major (fortunately now-protected) spoiler earlier.
I actually had the fact of
Kara's death
spoiled for me in the HEADLINE of some clickbait site several days before the film's release. You can imagine my pleasure and delight. :mad:
 
Based on 30 years of attempts to get that property right on the big screen I just have very low confidence they can make a crowd pleaser.

Didn't happen with Cage
Didn't happen with Routh
Cavill got the short end of the stick and was cheated out of a handful of potential movies and the hope of his return was squashed.


WB greed propelled Batman VS Superman when we could have gotten a Man of Steel sequel and then everything went downhill after that.
 
Based on 30 years of attempts to get that property right on the big screen I just have very low confidence they can make a crowd pleaser.

Didn't happen with Cage
Didn't happen with Routh
Cavill got the short end of the stick and was cheated out of a handful of potential movies and the hope of his return was squashed.


WB greed propelled Batman VS Superman when we could have gotten a Man of Steel sequel and then everything went downhill after that.
I somewhat agree. They are rushing everything. BvS should have happened after we had a Batman solo film and a Superman sequel where he settles into the role as said hero comfortably. Then have them face off.
Same goes for this new Flash movie. The premise of it is a sequel story. Build up his character first from Justice League with a smaller scale story featuring just him. Then the sequel could be this.
I feel like this would have helped the casual audience get more comfortable with them.
 
I somewhat agree. They are rushing everything. BvS should have happened after we had a Batman solo film and a Superman sequel where he settles into the role as said hero comfortably. Then have them face off.
Same goes for this new Flash movie. The premise of it is a sequel story. Build up his character first from Justice League with a smaller scale story featuring just him. Then the sequel could be this.
I feel like this would have helped the casual audience get more comfortable with them.


Why was a Batman solo film needed before "Batman v. Superman"? You might as well complain about both Black Panther and Spider-man appearing in "Captain America: Civil War" before their own solo movies. Yet, very few people complain about this.
 
Why was a Batman solo film needed before "Batman v. Superman"? You might as well complain about both Black Panther and Spider-man appearing in "Captain America: Civil War" before their own solo movies. Yet, very few people complain about this.
I would say just to give his version more context. Give more of a reason why he’s more brutal and why he might see Superman as a villain. See him start to unravel which we see later on in BvS as to why Lex was able to manipulate him.
Just him though. Flash and the others don’t need one before JL. Their introduction would still be that.
 
I absolutely don't believe we 'needed' solo movies before getting a big team-up, but if you're going to jump feet-first into the big team-up then you do have to tailor the story to what you're doing. If they didn't want a Batman solo first, then BvS needed to be clearer about where this Batman is coming from and why he's different from what we're used to seeing from the character. They could've made huge strides toward this with some very simple changes, like dumping the annual flashback to Bruce's parents' death that's been done over and over again and instead giving us a flashback to his history *as Batman* that gives us some actual context for his complete lack of faith in goodness.

But ultimately the worst of the lack of proper development goes to Superman. I love MoS, but Clark has maybe 30 minutes of screentime actually being Superman before his death, most of which involves him being feared, hated and/or demonized. That's just not at all a workable foundation for an even remotely satisfying Death of Superman adaptation. There had to be either another movie or else a different ending.
 
I love MoS, but Clark has maybe 30 minutes of screentime actually being Superman before his death, most of which involves him being feared, hated and/or demonized.
That’s what poor Homelander is going through now. Let’s hope he gets past it.
#HomeFree
 
I somewhat agree. They are rushing everything. BvS should have happened after we had a Batman solo film and a Superman sequel where he settles into the role as said hero comfortably. Then have them face off.

I feel like this would have helped the casual audience get more comfortable with them.

The "casual audience" knew Superman well enough that a second solo film was not required--he was firmly established in MoS--before the team-up film. In Batman's case, his presence speaks for itself: a character with many long years on the job with a reputation known to all, which was addressed and successfully presented in BvS. This was not a new Batman on the job, but one with a reputation so large, the audience did not need much backstory, and when references were made (to the Joker and Robin), it was understood sans 40 minutes of exposition because we knew he (Batman) had a storied history before the events of BvS, and certainly knew what his world view was about superhumans in BvS' prologue.

Why was a Batman solo film needed before "Batman v. Superman"? You might as well complain about both Black Panther and Spider-man appearing in "Captain America: Civil War" before their own solo movies. Yet, very few people complain about this.

Agreed, and in Spider-Man's case, it was a completely unnecessary appearance (other than a certain part of the audience needing that kind of fan-service). He added nothing to or impacted anything in the plot at all, yet some giggled right into that third Avengers film masquerading as a Cap movie, never complaining that Spider-Man or Black Panther "needed" a solo film before their shoehorning into Civil War.
 
I would say just to give his version more context. Give more of a reason why he’s more brutal and why he might see Superman as a villain.

I knew from the moment of seeing his reaction to the Black Zero event and his own experiences, how Batman would view Superman. Affleck's expression and performance seemed to make that pretty clear to me.
 
I don't think anything was lacking in the performances or direction in "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" or that anything else was needed to tell the story that Snyder wanted to tell. The film was divisive because of Snyder's take on Superman and Batman. Some liked it, others didn't. Personally I hated his take on all the characters with the exception of Wonder Woman who almost seemed like she was from another, better, movie altogether.
 
I don't think anything was lacking in the performances or direction in "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" or that anything else was needed to tell the story that Snyder wanted to tell. The film was divisive because of Snyder's take on Superman and Batman. Some liked it, others didn't. Personally I hated his take on all the characters with the exception of Wonder Woman who almost seemed like she was from another, better, movie altogether.

I found the theatrical BvS incoherent, but yesterday I decided to check out the Ultimate Edition director's cut on Max to see if it was as much better as people say. It is definitely a more coherent and better film, feeling like an actual narrative instead of just a bunch of pieces stapled together in the vague shape of a narrative, and it is effectively directed. It makes Clark feel like less of a MacGuffin and more of a character, the flow of Knyazev's machinations on Luthor's behalf and Lois's investigation unearthing them are clearer, and the focus on the civilians that Luthor manipulates into his tools is effective. But it still has a lot of the same problems, like the pointless intrusion of the future-vision sequence; it would've been a better movie overall without the need to set up a Cinematic Universe. And I feel the improvement was mainly to the first half; the second half was still too cluttered, with the gratuitous inclusion of Doomsday. And I agree with thribs that there should've been at least one more movie before they killed Superman.

So I can understand now why people like the film, at least the expanded version of it, and I certainly have a higher opinion of it now, up to a point. But while it told a reasonably coherent story about Snyder's versions of the characters, they're far from my favorite versions. In particular, it seemed to me that many of the problems could have been avoided if Superman had just talked to people, if he'd let himself be a public presence from the start like many other versions of Superman have done, instead of remaining this mysterious, aloof, Dr. Manhattan-ish figure that created so many doubts about his intentions even nearly two years after his debut. Okay, maybe this Clark is just really uncomfortable with publicity, but he seemed to make things much harder on himself by staying silent and letting the media and Lex shape the narrative (and failing to explain himself to Batman during the fight even though he had plenty of chances after his brief token effort at the start). I mean, he lives with a world-famous reporter. How hard can it be to get his side of the story out there?
 
Wonder Woman who almost seemed like she was from another, better, movie altogether.
That's funny. I've said this exact thing before about Amy Adams's Lois Lane in Snyder's films.

(Mind you, this isn't an attack on Snyder or his fans. I've gotten more comfortable with his DCEU entries in the past couple years. But Adams's Lois remains far and away the best thing about them.)
 
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