HOAs (Homeowners' Associations) -- Are they really that bad?

[fireproof78]

HOAs are *everywhere* here in AZ and listings often crow "NO HOA!" for the few places without them.

I currently live in a neighborhood without them, but it's going a bit downhill. I think if I feel I actually found a place where my fee went to a community pool or something, I'd be willing to check it out.

Our last house had an HOA with very loosely enforced CC&Rs. Our dues went to maintaining the common green space around the neighborhood. It was reasonable enough with no threat of fines.

I think HOAs, like any other form of human government, works best when the people affected by it are involved. The overreach comes when one goes all in on power and the rest don't care enough to engage until it impacts them.

 

[Non Sync]

All I know about them is what I know from the John Oliver segment.

It's at least made me never want to be in an HOA. The idea that arbitrarily appointed people could just arbitrarily levy me huge fines for things as trivial as putting my garbage can in the wrong place with no accountability.

The HOA boards are made up of elected residents. Most people usually pay zero attention to meeting notices or elections, so the same people tend to stay in their positions. If you want accountability, then you need to vote in elections, attend meetings, and either run for positions or volunteer.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I think if I feel I actually found a place where my fee went to a community pool or something, I'd be willing to check it out.

Wait, they charge you for the honour of receiving their abuse?! Didn't know that. The more I hear of them, the more glad I am that they're practically non-existent around here.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The HOA boards are made up of elected residents. Most people usually pay zero attention to meeting notices or elections, so the same people tend to stay in their positions. If you want accountability, then you need to vote in elections, attend meetings, and either run for positions or volunteer.

Can one person do that? Can one person who was assessed a ridiculous fee appeal to someone, anyone? Is there even a statue limiting what rules they can make, and how much they can charge?

How much emotional effort is a stressed, busy person required to put into this system to avoid being taken advantage of and have basic rights over your own property?

 

[Non Sync]

Can one person do that? Can one person who was assessed a ridiculous fee appeal to someone, anyone? Is there even a statue limiting what rules they can make, and how much they can charge?

How much emotional effort is a stressed, busy person required to put into this system to avoid being taken advantage of and have basic rights over your own property?

It all boils down to the specific HOA CC&R and state law. Some states have better protection from overly bearing HOAs.

 

[Commander Troi]

Wait, they charge you for the honour of receiving their abuse?! Didn't know that. The more I hear of them, the more glad I am that they're practically non-existent around here.

Yep. Anything from fairly small to completely crazy amounts.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Yep. Anything from fairly small to completely crazy amounts.

Out here in the Aloha State, it’s fairly common in Honolulu to have a relatively low mortgage (condos are about $600K, last I checked), but the HOA fees are two to three times the mortgage, per month.

And they (the HOAs) in general don’t do a dang thing, other than provide a parking spot.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[fireproof78]

Can one person do that? Can one person who was assessed a ridiculous fee appeal to someone, anyone? Is there even a statue limiting what rules they can make, and how much they can charge?

How much emotional effort is a stressed, busy person required to put into this system to avoid being taken advantage of and have basic rights over your own property?

Depends on the laws of the state and local municipalities. Much of the time the fines can't be made to be due unless the property is sold. So, it depends on what the specific CC&R's stipulate. So, again they are not always super bad, but like any power system there can be abuses.

 

[Non Sync]

Actually, again depending on the state and HOA bylaws/CC&R, they can sue or put a lien on the property followed by foreclosure. They could also take money from the property owner's bank or garnish wages if they get a money judgment.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It all boils down to the specific HOA CC&R and state law. Some states have better protection from overly bearing HOAs.

Even if the states where they have better protections though, they can still decide just by fiat what color car you can have in your driveway, what kind of flowers you're allowed to have in your garden, what pets you can have, how you can paint your house. Neighborhood level microgovernments with power above city level zoning boards to dictate what you do on your property. It's offensive for anyone to have that power regardless of whether in a given case, that power gets unreasonably abused.

I would never live under anyone with the opportunity to abuse that power. Even if the current leaders don't, they could be replaced at any time by those who do.

 

[fireproof78]

Actually, again depending on the state and HOA bylaws/CC&R, they can sue or put a lien on the property followed by foreclosure. They could also take money from the property owner's bank or garnish wages if they get a money judgment.

True. I should say "for my state."

Regardless, people should not be surprised they are in an HOA. There's paperwork that you have to sign. I guess that involves awareness

 

[valkyrie013]

The overreach comes when one goes all in on power and the rest don't care enough to engage until it impacts them.

Quote of the day that fills in practically all levels.. from HOA's to City, to County(or Parish.. damn Louisiana..) to state, to federal.. Give them an inch.. they take the whole highway..

It does depend on state laws, but the bad stories that are out there, are real, some exaggerated? Probably..

Story: had a woman who's husband went on a deployment to Iraq or somewhere, she mentally checked out due to depression while he was gone, when he got back, the HOA, put a lien for unpaid dues, and sold his Paid OFF home from under him. Wife apparently ignored any mail. He apparently got it back, but details weren't disclosed.. But No judge was involved, and it was over $900 of unpaid HOA fees. Which balooned to 3500$ with lawyer fees, then they sold the house for the $3500 on the steps of a court house, no judge involved, and some other guy bought it for $135,000 .. and started demanding rent.
This was Texas, I don't think they fixed it yet.

 

[Commander Troi]

Bloody hell!

I noticed the John Oliver story had several examples here in AZ. I was unsurprised.

Anyone else remember the X-Files with the HOA using a monster to get compliance? The Monday after that aired, a coworker told me that was like his best friend's HOA.

 

[JD]

Wait, they charge you for the honour of receiving their abuse?! Didn't know that. The more I hear of them, the more glad I am that they're practically non-existent around here.

Yeah, but a lot of them do maintain the community spaces, and some of them do through parties and things like that.
And honestly, seeing what some houses in neighborhoods without them look like, I can see where they could serve a purpose. Across the street from our neighborhood there's an old A-Frame house that is falling apart, with half falling down fence, and a yard filled with old broken down cars, and that's the kind having an HOA to prevent in a nicer neighborhood. The problem is that a lot of them just go completely overboard and get way to controling.

Quote of the day that fills in practically all levels.. from HOA's to City, to County(or Parish.. damn Louisiana..) to state, to federal.. Give them an inch.. they take the whole highway..

It does depend on state laws, but the bad stories that are out there, are real, some exaggerated? Probably..

Story: had a woman who's husband went on a deployment to Iraq or somewhere, she mentally checked out due to depression while he was gone, when he got back, the HOA, put a lien for unpaid dues, and sold his Paid OFF home from under him. Wife apparently ignored any mail. He apparently got it back, but details weren't disclosed.. But No judge was involved, and it was over $900 of unpaid HOA fees. Which balooned to 3500$ with lawyer fees, then they sold the house for the $3500 on the steps of a court house, no judge involved, and some other guy bought it for $135,000 .. and started demanding rent.
This was Texas, I don't think they fixed it yet.

I believe they passed a law here in AZ that the HOA can't take your house because of unpaid fees.

 

[Commander Troi]

I believe they passed a law here in AZ that the HOA can't take your house because of unpaid fees.

Good to hear!

 

[Avro Arrow]

And honestly, seeing what some houses in neighborhoods without them look like, I can see where they could serve a purpose. Across the street from our neighborhood there's an old A-Frame house that is falling apart, with half falling down fence, and a yard filled with old broken down cars, and that's the kind having an HOA to prevent in a nicer neighborhood.

So this may be an oversimplification and/or a bit of a cliché, so please forgive me if so. But one of the things that we are taught about Americans is that personal liberty and individual freedom is one of your commonly-held social mores. So I guess it just surprises me to hear that so many are OK with giving up their freedom around what they can do with their own personal property. With your example above, I can understand it may be unsightly, but... it's their property, so as long as they aren't breaking any laws, they can kind of do with it what they want, can't they?

I hope this wasn't offensive. No offence was intended.

 

[JD]

Oh yeah, you're not wrong, but a lot of people want to live in a nice neighborhood, and are willing to put up HOA to do it. And if you really don't want to deal with one, there are plenty of places to live without them.
I'm not trying to defend the power hungry, overly controlling HOAs, just trying to say that in theory I can understand what they're meant to do.
In theory, they're just meant to keep neighborhoods from looking like something our of a post apocalyptic movie, but a lot of them just get carried away.

 

[Commander Troi]

HOAs were perhaps also put in place in some areas to "keep out undesirables." That can't really be ignored. Many HOA neighborhoods are very homogeneous, both by class and race.

 

[JD]

That's definitely a good reason not to like them.

 

[fireproof78]

HOAs were perhaps also put in place in some areas to "keep out undesirables." That can't really be ignored. Many HOA neighborhoods are very homogeneous, both by class and race.

Again, it depends. Technically my current property is an HOA. And all it does is help fund the water system that is separate from the city.

All I can say is (and will repeat) is that people need to read the CC&R's when looking at a property. Yes, I know reading is hard.