Not according to Jorg's analysis, no. It seems pretty clear that there are only so many classes of ship in those scenes.
Mark
Mark
PIC S3 Ships & Tech
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The curious Curiosity Class is now the.....
https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1661711185891274752
https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1661711185891274752
Smaller than Voyager with windows of a Sovereign
I cannot wait to see more of this one. It does have the usual Eaves stylistic choices, but something about this ship just works for me.
Little short for a sovereign clone??
Wish he'd post more images of it though.. like the bottom.. so I can do up a 3d of it..
Wish he'd post more images of it though.. like the bottom.. so I can do up a 3d of it..
It seems many observers are drawing comparisons to the U.S.S. Emmett Till, another John Eaves design originating from the 2019 DS9 documentary What We Left Behind as the showrunners' intent for Ezri Dax's first captaincy post-DS9.
Or to the U.S.S. ibn Majid, Chris Rios's old assignment glimpsed as a silhouette in PIC season 1.
Or to the U.S.S. ibn Majid, Chris Rios's old assignment glimpsed as a silhouette in PIC season 1.
Perhaps the Jein Class was the 2401 update to the Dominion War era Curiosity Class.
^^^ I could see it being an evolution or sub-class of the Curiosity, yeah. Just like the E-B is a subset/upgrade of the Excelsior.
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Huh? So this ship is that tiny speck in that screencap, which looks nothing like this drawing? Gimme some of what you’re smoking, Dave. It’s some good shit.
honey they give us the minimummmmm I'll say that
Works for me.
Then I would have to ask why the Curiosity class was updated but, say, the Sovereign class, which was contemporary to the Curiosity class, was not.
Perhaps because the Sovereign class didn't need an external upgrade (yet) and all of the internal upgrades would have kept it up to par with all modern ships?
I mean, when you look at it, the Sovereign as a design would be about 30 years old. The Galaxy class would have similarly been about 40 years old as a design.
I would surmise most ships would receive external upgrades once every 100 odd years if they are deemed necessary.
Given the modular nature of both Galaxy and Sovereign class ships (or at least one would think they were both designed with that in mind), SF could easily get away with giving them just internal upgrades (which would easily keep them fully up to date with modern ships) without even touching the outside for at least 100 years or so.
Bear in mind that Miranda and Excelsior class ships went virtually unchanged in external looks for 80 years... and even then, most of the updates were in the nacelles and the Excelsiors may have gotten that secondary hull upgrade the ENT-B started with back in the 23rd century.
It wasn't until PIC s2 that we saw the Excelsior in 25th century mode... so it was changed externally... and that basically happened what 120 odd years after the Excelsior was first put into service.
The only other example of an Excelsior receiving an external upgrade would have been the Obena class as seen in LD.
I know its treated as a separate class, but to me it literally looks like an intermediary 24th century Excelsior class upgrade which was Sovereign-ised... and then the class went through another upgrade cycle just before it was seen in PIC s2.
At least, that's what I make out of it.
But in fairness, as time goes on, technology and science evolve faster... its possible that with the early 25th century, there were just so many advancements made that necessitated external upgrades to various older ships whereas most relatively modern ones (such as the Galaxy and Sovereign - possibly the Intrepids as well) would have not had to undergo external changes yet.
It could be that the Dominion War StarShip Damage/Casualty list led to ALOT of attrition of older classes and the need to build ALOT of newer StarShips quickly, especially after the Synth Rebellion reduced StarFleet's StarShip #'s by a significant amount around the core worlds.
But, we don't know the actual aftermath of the synth attack.
I mean, we've seen in PIC s1 finale they had a massive fleet of nothing but Zheng'he class of ships which warped in to face off the Romulans.
Plus, SF likely just doesn't have Utopia Planitia as a single starship construction facility for the entirety of Starfleet (regardless of what the writers would want us to think) because it wouldn't be plausible for the whole UFP that stretches 8000 ly's and has over 150 member planets (star systems which are fully developed and have their own starship construction facilities that would not only support the native species fleets, but also be under SF's juridstiction/protection and would use them for starship construction as well).
Although, I suppose the facilities in Earth's orbit could have made those ships if UP was indeed the ONLY SF (main) ship production facility (as incredibly silly/stupid that is).
As for there being a large amount of damage to older classes... yes, but as we saw in PIC S3, there's plenty of those running around still with new/modern nacelles (they are still 23rd century style, but with more glowing bits) and some other contemporary upgrades (such as phaser strips).
So, while SF suffered losses, they weren't too huge (as the war was over before the casualty list went too high), and besides, the fleet would have recovered in the years/decade following the Dominion War... just in time for the Vau'Na'Kat weapon to cull the number of ships in the fleet by a few dozen (which would be replaced in a year or so I suspect,or less - realistically, in about a month or less if most drydocks/shipyards are tasked to repair and/or replace the ships using replicators and transporters for prefabrication of sections and then tractor beams for assembly - I mean, you can make a starship even like that fast and we know transporters can handle something the size of a shuttle - and VOY managed to transport 200 klingons at the same time which GREATLY surpass the size and mass of a shuttle - but that's the logical mind speaking - the writers on the other hand probably ignore most of that).
I mean, given that we both agree that SF should (realistically) have millions/billions of ships (and similar amount of starbases) if just 0.5% to 1% of the Federation population was part of SF, the number of ships lost with the Vau'Na'Kat weapon would have been a drop in the bucket (similarly even if 1000 to 2000 ships / or even 10 000 were destroyed during the Dominion War) compared to the millions of ships being out there.
Though, if the number of active SF ships was about 7000 during the 23rd century (per Discovery S2), then it stands to reason there would be at least over 70 000 ships in active service by the late 24th century (aka, over 10x increase - but with larger amount of members and much more advanced technology, it could have easily expanded to millions of ships and starbases since the 23rd century thanks to automation and more advanced manufacturing technology - more efficient/faster replicators, etc.).
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It's just a throwaway design with a stupid throwaway length/size, not sure why they even posted it without giving us a little more back story. It's like they literally made up a length in their head and were like hey just put that even though it doesn't make sense with the photo of the ship. Sometimes I wonder if the Picard people even care lol.
Yeah. There's never been a lack of back story or scaling issues with any other starship.
We do agree that it's most likely a significant loss around the "Core Worlds" Production Ship yards, not every single ship yard.
There's no way SF could be this small and have everything based on one Star System.
But the whole point was that the Romulan Rescue Effort was stymied by the Synth Attack.
That was the entire point, not necessarilly damaging SF in it's entirety.
But remember that Utopia Planetia could be one of the larger Ship Yards to be dedicated to building ALOT of StarShips at one place. Alot of resources in terms of trained man-power, lack of Synths to do automation work could lead to a huge slow-down in rebuilding.
Not to mention replacing all the hardware, quelling down the planetary fires, getting safety & security up and running with new trainees. That's going to eat up alot of resources & time.
Now that they figured out that it was a "Inside Job" and that there was malware involved, hopefully they get their software and IT security team up to spec.
One of StarFleet's greatess Weaknesses has been IT security and Inside Jobs.
Yeah, but one doesn't need synths to do the heavy lifting.
I mean, automation comes in many forms... and in Trek, what usually can be done with manual labor CAN be done with antigrav units and tractor beams... and SF tech can easily create small/compact devices with these in mind that can crawl through the ship and do maintenance, repairs and upgrades (oh yeah, they have the DOT's which pretty much do the same thing - the USS Titan-A used them).
Plus, I never saw ships in Trek being built manually, because it doesn't make sense. For space, you'd need massive amount of automation to do the task, not manual assembly... and if you have the ability to make ships in space, then you have robotics and automation that can/should do all of it.
The manual labor might be needed in some final touch ups in the final stages as the ship is completed, which would be done in conjuction of finalizing the assembly of the ship (especially if done via prefarbication techniques).
Replacing the hw can be done with transporters usually.
Given the modular nature of SF ships, I'm actually surprised that SF isn't using transporters in this fashion when they could just as easily lock onto affected components and replace them.
The old components could be directly disassembled inside the matter stream back to energy or base elements/recycled to be used for replicating a new component.
It just seems to me SF wastes a lot of resources needlessly on mind numbing stuff that should have never been done by manual labor... and it surprises me that Trek writers also seemingly ignore this.
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