What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Grendelsbayne]

The genuinely good:

Emissary
Strange New Worlds
Vulcan Hello/Binary Stars
Where No Man Has Gone Before

Solid but less memorable:
Lost and Found
Remembrance

Major issues, but enjoyable:
Second Contact
The Cage

Bad:
Caretaker
Broken Bow

Awful:
Encounter at Farpoint

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

TNG is mid with a few exceptions.

 

[Farscape One]

While I don't think TNG's pilot is great, it certainly isn't the worst one. I'd probably rank the pilots like this...


1. "CARETAKER" - This had an advantage the other pilots didn't have: the Maquis were created and were given a decent background in the previous tv season, DS9 season 2/TNG season 7, which allowed this pilot to skip a lot of introduction and exposition that would have otherwise bogged down the pilot. This allowed the episode to focus completely on the VOYAGER story.

2. "BROKEN BOW" - Take out the Temporal Cold War, and I probably would have put it above VGR's. That storyline really hurt the pilot and the series.

3. "EMISSARY" - DS9 nailed the feel of the world and the characters from the jump. It's probably the most personal story for the lead of the series out of all the shows until PICARD came along. Though I rank it third, this one could easily be on equal footing as number 1 and 2.

4. "Strange New Worlds" - Just a very well done episode and story. Having Mount on DISCO season 2 really helped.

5. "THE CAGE"/"WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE"/"THE MAN TRAP" - The reason I put them all together is because depending on whether you go by the first pilot, second pilot, or first aired episode, each served as a pilot for TOS. And I would honestly rate them all pretty much equally... solid episodes that tells you what the series is going to be.

6. "Encounter at Farpoint" - I will admit to a bit of a bias because it was what made me a fan of ST and science fiction in general. Otherwise, I would have put it between TAS and PRODIGY.

7. "Second Contact" - A great deal of fun, and it set the tone for the show well.

8. "LOST AND FOUND" - Actually a solid pilot. You really are endeared to the characters pretty quickly.

9. "BEYOND THE FARTHEST STAR" - Very unique ship and a good pilot for TAS.

10. "Remembrance"/"Maps and Legends"/"The End is the Beginning" - This really could have been condensed into 2 episodes, so it feels like it dragged on for far too long. That hurt these episodes overall.

11. "The Vulcan Hello"/"Battle at the Binary Stars" - I just didn't feel that invested in the characters, with the exception of Captain Georgiou. The story just didn't sit well with me, either, because it relied on Burnham performing a mutiny and trying to make it look like that was the right answer. What's worse is that the title ship of the series doesn't even appear! Nor do most of the leads. This makes the pilot feel fragmented, at best. As a pilot episode, whose job is to introduce you to the setting and its lead characters, DISCO's pilot failed spectacularly. This is why it is easily dead last.

 

[Tallguy]

I forgot Picard (make of that what you will) but I also forgot to include TAS. TAS tried to be the 4th season of TOS and it largely succeeded. So I don't generally think of TAS as having a "pilot" but of course it does.

And one might notice where I've listed my location and accuse me of bias. But BTFS is just better than most things.

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

the Galaxy-class works better in cg

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

the Galaxy-class works better in cg

Most StarShips work better in CG.

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

t

Most StarShips work better in CG.

true

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

the TOS film ship models were beautiful.

 

[eschaton]

Connor Trinneer would’ve been a much better casting choice for playing Captain Archer than the Quantum Leap bloke.

Bakula is an awesome dude, but he was a spectacular miscast as Jonathan Archer. Bakula is a nice guy who plays nice guys, and Archer is a thin-skinned, petty, insecure jerk (at least in the first two seasons until they started writing more to Bakula's strengths).

I think a version of ENT which leaned more into Archer's flaws (basically with T'Pol as the protagonist who kept trying to stop her bumbling commanding officer from ruining everything) would have been much more watchable.

 

[gweeps]

I think a version of ENT which leaned more into Archer's flaws (basically with T'Pol as the protagonist who kept trying to stop her bumbling commanding officer from ruining everything) would have been much more watchable.

Now this would be fascinating.

Maybe that idea is one of the reasons people love 'Twilight' so much?

 

[drt]

Bakula is an awesome dude, but he was a spectacular miscast as Jonathan Archer. Bakula is a nice guy who plays nice guys, and Archer is a thin-skinned, petty, insecure jerk (at least in the first two seasons until they started writing more to Bakula's strengths).

I think a version of ENT which leaned more into Archer's flaws (basically with T'Pol as the protagonist who kept trying to stop her bumbling commanding officer from ruining everything) would have been much more watchable.

I don't think having a bumbling commanding officer works at all, people don't want to watch that unless it's comedy.

I think Enterprise might have worked better if it took place in the immediate aftermath of the Romulan War. Fortunately, the Federation hadn't been conceived when they made "Balance of Terror" so the Romulan War could have been easily been just between Earth and Romulus. Enterprise could have been centered around the optomistic, deep-space exploration missions following that conflict. I'd lose all the bullshit with the Vulcans being humankind's space nannies. T'pol could still be first officer, as one of the preludes to humans working with friendly aliens and founding the Federation.

 

[Space Socialist]

Bakula is an awesome dude, but he was a spectacular miscast as Jonathan Archer. Bakula is a nice guy who plays nice guys, and Archer is a thin-skinned, petty, insecure jerk (at least in the first two seasons until they started writing more to Bakula's strengths).

Oh, agree. He was really let down by the creative team, who really should’ve resculpted the character to match the actor’s strengths before the show started filming.

 

[Tallguy]

They could also have gone in a different direction than "Earthers, they're DUMB." (Full disclosure I haven't seen a lot of ENT. I quit when it seemed like the stories were going to be "Earthers, they're DUMB.")

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Archer's reluctance to take life when it was necessary often came across as feckless dithering. I'm not sure who's fault that was.

 

[cooleddie74]

And the converse never bothered me as much as it did other viewers. When Archer was angry enough to torture the Illyrian in the Delphic Expanse and then he ordered Enterprise to board and take what they needed from the Illyrian ship it was jarring. What Archer did in both instances wasn't nice nor was it terribly ethical. But it's what human beings of the mid-22nd century would likely do in real life if they were faced with preventing a disaster on the scale of the Xindi destroying Earth.

For a few moments in ENT the crew were the pissed-off assholes that real humans would probably be in those situations and it was refreshing, if controversial. "Here's some really awful behavior. We don't recommend it but this is how people would probably behave in these situations."

 

[Farscape One]

You have to give credit to Bakula for being VERY much against the idea of members of his crew getting redshirted. It's why we didn't see any of his crew die until season 3.

In fact, Archer is the only captain besides Sisko (though I will be double checking this part, since my wife and I are currently rewatching DS9 from the beginning) who went 2 full seasons without a member of his crew getting killed.

Pretty safe captain, if you ask me.

 

[Nyotarules]

And the converse never bothered me as much as it did other viewers. When Archer was angry enough to torture the Illyrian in the Delphic Expanse and then he ordered Enterprise to board and take what they needed from the Illyrian ship it was jarring. What Archer did in both instances wasn't nice nor was it terribly ethical. But it's what human beings of the mid-22nd century would likely do in real life if they were faced with preventing a disaster on the scale of the Xindi destroying Earth.

For a few moments in ENT the crew were the pissed-off assholes that real humans would probably be in those situations and it was refreshing, if controversial. "Here's some really awful behavior. We don't recommend it but this is how people would probably behave in these situations."

I have a theory that some fans especially in the West, and especially fans from the USA were uncomfortable with the human race being low in the pecking order of galactic politics and being under the patronising guidance of the Vulcans. In TOS, DS9, VOY etc humans (read USA) are the top dogs of the UFP. Its a humancentric empire, in the 23rd and 24th century.

 

[Farscape One]

I actually liked that humans in ENT were at the low end of totem pole in terms of being a galactic power. It means we got to watch the journey from being at the bottom to being the top dog.

 

[cooleddie74]

We make fun of the Gazelle Speech but it's not an incorrect soliloquy for Archer to deliver. Humanity had to grow in order to earn its space legs and species like the Vulcans had to display the proper patience while we did so.

 

[fireproof78]

Humans should absolutely be low down on the pecking order. They're whole "We're going to Kronos" thing smacked of stupid hubris. Should have seen more struggles and more support from Vulcans and Andorians, rather than the hostility and humanity giving secrets to their ally's enemies.