Speed of Plot Consternation

[Christopher]

Speaking of sounds, there was an episode of CAPRICA that depicted a thunderstorm correctly. You'd see the flash of lightning, and then you'd hear the sound of thunder a few seconds after the flash. It's probably the only time I can think of off the top of my head that anyone remembered light is faster than sound.

I saw something recently that got the time delay right, but I can't remember what it was.

The most egregious example I've seen of sound editors ignoring the time delay on sound was an episode of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. It was an explicit plot point, spelled out in dialogue, that the characters were using the time delay between the sight and sound of an artillery piece firing to calculate how far away it was. And yet the sound editors still put in a "boom" sound effect at the exact instant the cannon fired!

 

[GeorgeKirk]

Warp drive is an imaginary technology, so I can be more forgiving of it. It's the impulse speeds that bother me. In Best of Both Worlds part 2, the Enterprise drops out of warp near Saturn, and Wesley reports that travel time to Earth is something like 23 minutes, which would only be possible if they were moving faster than light. Or how the Enterprise in Star Trek II hasn't yet engaged its warp engines after leaving dock, which would mean they're still in the Sol system, but somehow they're the closest ship to the Mutara sector?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or how the Enterprise in Star Trek II hasn't yet engaged its warp engines after leaving dock, which would mean they're still in the Sol system, but somehow they're the closest ship to the Mutara sector?

I always thought the ship had come out of warp speed after leaving the Earth Sector and then re-engaged it to get to Regula-1. Then again, starships were treated as few and far between in some instances in TOS and were more akin to aircraft carriers in their rarity, so it's possible the Enterprise was still at Sol when she engaged warp...

 

[David cgc]

Or how the Enterprise in Star Trek II hasn't yet engaged its warp engines after leaving dock, which would mean they're still in the Sol system, but somehow they're the closest ship to the Mutara sector?

Well, speaking of implicit gaps, we don't have any indication of how long it was between the Enterprise launching and Kirk running into Saavik in the turbolift, or where the ship had gone. While the plotlines are cut together in such a way as to imply everything's happening at the same time, the plotlines don't actually intersect until Marcus calls Kirk to complain about the Reliant. The training cruise could've already been out for anywhere up to three weeks (since Sulu hadn't jumped ship yet) before the Reliant arrived at Ceti Alpha "VI."

Of course, if J.J. had been making the movie, he would've slipped in a line about how Saavik was coming back from the gym because she was so keyed up about piloting the ship out of dock and needed to work off her nerves, just like the needless line from Sulu about the ship only just reaching cruising speed right before they arrive at Vulcan closing the gap between Kirk passing out and coming to down to nothing.

 

[Christopher]

just like the needless line from Sulu about the ship only just reaching cruising speed right before they arrive at Vulcan closing the gap between Kirk passing out and coming to down to nothing.

Well, Sulu's exact words are "Engines at maximum warp, Captain," which implies they only just reached it, but could be interpreted as "Engines still at maximum warp." Or maybe there was some brief slowdown that engineering had to adjust, and they were back at maximum afterward. It gives an impression of being continuous but doesn't completely rule out a gap.

 

[fireproof78]

hat's Star Trek's excuse other than the VFX directors wanting it to "Look Cool"

This is all it is. Nothing more; nothing less.

Speaking of sounds, there was an episode of CAPRICA that depicted a thunderstorm correctly. You'd see the flash of lightning, and then you'd hear the sound of thunder a few seconds after the flash. It's probably the only time I can think of off the top of my head that anyone remembered light is faster than sound.

I saw it on TV series that I watched as a kid. Lot's of flickering lights out the window (easy effect) and then the sound included. It was done pretty well on M*A*S*H too.

 

[Farscape One]

This is all it is. Nothing more; nothing less.

I saw it on TV series that I watched as a kid. Lot's of flickering lights out the window (easy effect) and then the sound included. It was done pretty well on M*A*S*H too.

I expect a science fiction series to remember such a detail. Sitcoms, not at all, but if M*A*S*H did that, I have even more respect for that show than I already had. (I have only seen a fraction of their episodes, across all the eras, but what I have seen, I liked.)

 

[fireproof78]

I expect a science fiction series to remember such a detail.

I use too; I don't anymore. Science fiction TV shows are meant to entertain first. Now, I get it, and certainly some things get under my skin a little, like how counselors and therapists are treated, or the way glass is treated. It all comes down to needs of the entertainment plot. Otherwise it would be like that scene in J*A*G and Admiral Chegwidden advising on a Navy based movie and getting frustrated at the size of sets, combat style, etc. It was funny.

 

[Farscape One]

But a lightning flash and a thunder sound can easily be fixed in post-production. Shows do post-production already. All it takes, in a case like this, is to just delay the sound a couple seconds.

I guess it's just one little detail I just can't let go of.

 

[fireproof78]

But a lightning flash and a thunder sound can easily be fixed in post-production. Shows do post-production already. All it takes, in a case like this, is to just delay the sound a couple seconds.

I guess it's just one little detail I just can't let go of.

I get that, trust me. I can read military uniforms fairly well now and that's one thing that will bother me if a uniform is wrong or in sitcoms they have someone with Commander rank for a 21 year old. That stuff will bother me.

We all have our thing.

 

[Ragitsu]

Some of the religious imagery around Kevin Sorbo, and Dylan Hunt, was a bit ridiculous but I thought the series as a whole was generally a step up from much of what, certainly in the UK, we had available to us.

Andromeda becomes increasingly unpalatable the more Sorbo is at the helm.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That TOS episode where they go 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4, versus Voyager's 75 years to go 70,000 light years at warp 9.975.

By TOS speeds, Voyager would be home in a month.

Don't tell Janeway.

 

[Shawnster]

Warp drive is an imaginary technology, so I can be more forgiving of it.

I can handle and forgive imaginary technology. I just would like consistency in how that imaginary technology works.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I can handle and forgive imaginary technology. I just would like consistency in how that imaginary technology works.

You might have picked the wrong franchise.

 

[fireproof78]

I can handle and forgive imaginary technology. I just would like consistency in how that imaginary technology works.

Transporters alone have not been consistent. Also, where did that evil half come from?

 

[Christopher]

I can handle and forgive imaginary technology. I just would like consistency in how that imaginary technology works.

Yes. Fantasy is not an excuse to lower standards. A work of fiction should strive to be consistent in the application of its own rules, even if those rules are imaginary.

You might have picked the wrong franchise.

Such inconsistencies are inevitable in any long-running franchise with multiple creators. But the fact that errors have happened in the past is an incentive to try harder to avoid them, not to give up and stop caring.

 

[fireproof78]

I hope they they try harder and am unfazed by the inconsistencies if they occur.

 

[The Wormhole]

I use too; I don't anymore. Science fiction TV shows are meant to entertain first. Now, I get it, and certainly some things get under my skin a little, like how counselors and therapists are treated, or the way glass is treated. It all comes down to needs of the entertainment plot. Otherwise it would be like that scene in J*A*G and Admiral Chegwidden advising on a Navy based movie and getting frustrated at the size of sets, combat style, etc. It was funny.

TV shows in general are meant to entertain first. And if realism were ever a factor, than crime shows and legal dramas would be automatically out the window, as an actual crime can take months if not years to investigate, and likewise an actual trial can also last months if not years, yet on TV each can be handled in what would amount to in-universe time as a matter of days, week at the maximum. Your mention of JAG reminded me of an interesting statistic I read recently about NCIS. In the NCIS franchise, we follow the adventures of three field offices handle on average two dozen investigations a year, most of which are murders, or at least murder adjacent, IE the investigation starts off relatively run of the mill and over the course of the investigation a murder occurs. However, during the calendar year of 2022, the actual NCIS was only involved in seven investigations which involved homicide or anything related to it. And that's across the entire organization.

Now, yes, I understand to people who work in these particular fields, the lack of realism in TV shows depicting them can get irritating. My cousin, a volunteer firefighter can't stand shows like Chicago Fire or Station 19 because of their lack of realism, and here's a rather hilarious video on YouTube of an actual doctor reacting to Grey's Anatomy. But the popularity of all these shows proves people aren't watching them for realism.

I get that, trust me. I can read military uniforms fairly well now and that's one thing that will bother me if a uniform is wrong or in sitcoms they have someone with Commander rank for a 21 year old. That stuff will bother me.

We all have our thing.

Which reminds me of one of the reasons the US Air Force insisted Stargate SG-1 needed a military consultant was because of the costuming mistake they made in their pilot episode, which featured an officer wearing both a Major's rank insignia and a Sergeant's.

 

[Christopher]

And if realism were ever a factor, than crime shows and legal dramas would be automatically out the window...

Except that's not what "realism" means. It doesn't mean reality; it means an artistic style that evokes or suggests reality. It doesn't require a production to be entirely like reality; it's about creating a convincing enough illusion of plausibility to make it feel realistic to the audience.

As I've been saying, fiction is illusionism, much like stage magic or visual effects. The goal is not to convince the audience that it's actually real, but to show them something that they know is unreal in a way that makes it seem believable. They know the woman hasn't actually been sawn in half, but they're impressed that it convincingly looks that way, that the fakery isn't obvious.

So yes, realism is absolutely a factor. The illusion of realism is how you sell the unrealistic parts.

And yes, there are plenty of shows and movies that aren't realistic at all, and yes, people like them. But the audience has a right to a range of different options to choose from. Not everyone needs realism, but a lot of people want it, so it's good to have it as one option out of many. So I don't see the point of arguing against the existence of realism in fiction.

 

[1001001]

Now, yes, I understand to people who work in these particular fields, the lack of realism in TV shows depicting them can get irritating. My cousin, a volunteer firefighter can't stand shows like Chicago Fire or Station 19 because of their lack of realism, and here's a rather hilarious video on YouTube of an actual doctor reacting to Grey's Anatomy.

My wife and I recently watched an episode of The Good Doctor (a show we’ve never seen before) because a friend of ours was in it.

His character went from being diagnosed with a brain tumor, to surgery, to recovery in one day.