Spoilers Did Troi and Jack unwittingly...

[trekfan_1]

..help the borg?

Maybe I'm missing a plot point here. But what would of happened if Troi's concelling session didn't trigger Jack's retreat to the collective,? Didn't she/Jack's decision to go back unwittingly help the Borg's plan for frontier day? Wouldn't the borg be screwed if the timing of this realization didn't happen?

What would of happened if Jack wasn't triggered to go back? Or they didn't find out about his origins until after frontier day? Did the Borg just crossed their fingers that Jack would come back on his own before frontier day ?Didn't the borg need Jack for frontier day? if they didn't, then why the hurry to retrieve him?

 

[Citiprime]

Jack was already losing control. The visions and the expression of his powers were getting stronger even before Troi revealed the truth. My guess is that the same thing would of eventually happened, just that Jack would have felt a compulsion to come to the Queen (sort of the same way that Odo was drawn to the Omarian Nebula and the other Founders during DS9's "The Search").

 

[trekfan_1]

Jack was already losing control. The visions and the expression of his powers were getting stronger even before Troi revealed the truth. My guess is that the same thing would of eventually happened, just that Jack would have felt a compulsion to come to the Queen (sort of the same way that Odo was drawn to the Omarian Nebula and the other Founders during DS9's "The Search").

Ok. But it seems cutting it a little close from the Borg's perspective . Yeah eventually he would be driven to go back . But pretty convenient for the Borg (and really really bad timing for the good guys) that he made that realization *just* in time for frontier day so he can be the transmitter. What if Troi wasn't even onboard? Jack's decision to go back would likely be delayed. And No frontier day takeover happens

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

The "go live" date was already Frontier Day. It was built in to whatever code Jack had in him.

They would've only had less information without Troi.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

The "go live" date was already Frontier Day. It was built in to whatever code Jack had in him.

They would've only had less information without Troi.

That was my first instinct too, but after some thought, I believe the OP might be right. I mean, if he was guaranteed to find his way there, the Queen probably wouldn't have been as determined to get the Changelings to deliver him.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

That was my first instinct too, but after some thought, I believe the OP might be right. I mean, if he was guaranteed to find his way there, the Queen probably wouldn't have been as determined to get the Changelings to deliver him.

Can't hurt to have a backup plan. If Jack wasn't close to Earth at the right time, the plan probably doesn't work. They clearly needed him on that cube.

 

[Cortez]

You're only scratching the surface. I mean, there's plenty of other absolutely daft moments. Off the top of my head: The changelings have managed to infiltrate the highest levels of Starfleet and yet they can't capture Beverly and Jack? Picard still has his combadge? What range would they have? Jack asks an elderly man about family while he's is in the company of wide eyed young cadets, who are in an organisation that he has dedicated his entire life to. What did you expect him to say? "Nah fellas, have family. Don't bother with the training." And that's enough for Jack to turn his back on his father? Absolutely ridiculous.

Vadic boards the Titan. Why? Oh that's right, so they can capture her. How did they know she'd be on the shuttlecraft? Why was she smiling when they captured her? She knew Data was hooked into the mainframe? It's just so convoluted and stupid. The whole hostage situation made absolutely zero sense. Turbolift to bridge never being guarded. Ever. Why was the changeling that Raffi and Worf were chasing still in the shape of the guy that they were looking for? Turn into a teapot or into a bird and fly right off. No mention of Laris, no mention of Troi and Riker's daughter. It's honestly neverending.

 

[Ovation]

You're only scratching the surface. I mean, there's plenty of other absolutely daft moments. Off the top of my head: The changelings have managed to infiltrate the highest levels of Starfleet and yet they can't capture Beverly and Jack? Picard still has his combadge? What range would they have? Jack asks an elderly man about family while he's is in the company of wide eyed young cadets, who are in an organisation that he has dedicated his entire life to. What did you expect him to say? "Nah fellas, have family. Don't bother with the training." And that's enough for Jack to turn his back on his father? Absolutely ridiculous.

Vadic boards the Titan. Why? Oh that's right, so they can capture her. How did they know she'd be on the shuttlecraft? Why was she smiling when they captured her? She knew Data was hooked into the mainframe? It's just so convoluted and stupid. The whole hostage situation made absolutely zero sense. Turbolift to bridge never been guarded. Ever. Why was the changeling that Raffi and Worf were chasing still in the shape of the guy that they were looking for? Turn into a teapot or into a bird and fly right off. No mention of Laris, no mention of Troi and Riker's daughter. It's honestly neverending.

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

 

[Tosk]

The "go live" date was already Frontier Day. It was built in to whatever code Jack had in him.

I'm having trouble understanding how that would work. Jack did not exist until after Janeway crippled the Borg. How did they:

Know he would exist.
Know what he would be or worse yet, plan what he would be somehow.
Implant a 'come home' date in him (through his father, no less) that was decades away.
But not make it strong enough that they could trust it, so they also used clumsy Changelings to go get him?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I'm having trouble understanding how that would work. Jack did not exist until after Janeway crippled the Borg. How did they:

Know he would exist.
Know what he would be or worse yet, plan what he would be somehow.
Implant a 'come home' date in him (through his father, no less) that was decades away.
But not make it strong enough that they could trust it, so they also used clumsy Changelings to go get him?

The faux irumodic syndrome thing they did to Picard was Plan A maybe?

Yeah, on paper it doesn't make a lot of sense. Perhaps the Queen used here temporal vision or whatever to get a glimpse of the future.

 

[Tosk]

Perhaps the Queen used here temporal vision or whatever to get a glimpse of the future.

If she could see the future, she sure whiffed it.

 

[Cortez]

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Here's another doozie: why did the changeling aboard the Titan leave Jack to die in that room? Why did Geordi's daughter go with Jack down the corridor to trap Vadic when only a few scenes earlier he mentions to Picard that he can't take people dying for him, and it's quite obvious that he likes the girl? No security on board to help him? It's endless. Why did the Borg queen invite the Titan in? So that she could cackle at Picard? Daftness everywhere.

 

[Tosk]

...and why was Vadic a Borg underling? How was the Queen controlling Vadic physically?

 

[Cortez]

...and why was Vadic a Borg underling? How was the Queen controlling Vadic physically?

Don't open that can of worms. A treasure trove of facepalms and shrugs. Why wasn't there a reaction from the other changelings in Starfleet after Vadic and her crew were destroyed? When did Vadic escape? How did Vadic escape? Why did she act like an utter idiot when apparently she's supposed to be a super spy? Why did she look so terrified talking to the Borg and then basically was giving them the middle finger for 7 episodes while she toyed with the Titan?

 

[fireproof78]

...and why was Vadic a Borg underling? How was the Queen controlling Vadic physically?

Through pain.

 

[Cortez]

Through pain.

How? What pain?