Paramount apparently still doesn't get it...

[fireproof78]

The whole "real fan" nonsense needs to be shoved out an airlock. Down with gatekeeping!

I support this message!

but they won't dare show up at a place with real fans

With due respect, you lost me right here. There is no benchmark for real fans and the sooner this idea is dead and buried the sooner it will be easier to have conversations about what we like and don't like.

Don't like newer Trek? Easiest answer is with the "Off" button. That's the nice thing about streaming services. I don't have to pay for what I don't want to watch. It's amazingly refreshing in its capitalistic simplicity.

Vote with your dollars!

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Paramount is employed by a bunch of talentless ignorant arrogant clueless hacks who all hire each other and party with each other as if they're so "great" as if they're the Best specimens of humanity on earth. The writers of new trek (mostly discovery SNW and Picard) probably think they're way better than the people who worked on tos through ent. They get interviewed by their friends and they all act like their shows are a gift for us, and think they know better than the fans do, but they won't dare show up at a place with real fans, because deep down they know they'll get mocked and booed, and then blame it on some bs reason like "sexism" or "racism" rather than realize they're ignorant arrogant talentless hacks.

I wish we could get, and I really wouldn't normally say this, but if Rick Berman was leading the new shows like how he used to, we would have good trek today especially with legacy writers.

So on reflection, given the reaction, how are you feeling about all of this now?

 

[The Wormhole]

This is a very long winded way of saying you want to see more women's feet in Star Trek.

Are you saying you don't?

 

[Ovation]

Are you saying you don't?

Quentin?

 

[nightwind1]

Is Robin Curtis a plausible refit of Kirsty Alley, though?

To me, that was a downgrade.

 

[1001001]

The only real fans are the ones who don't use the term 'real fans'.

Great.

 

[Noname Given]

I wish we could get, and I really wouldn't normally say this, but if Rick Berman was leading the new shows like how he used to, we would have good trek today especially with legacy writers.

Hahahahahahaha! Oh wait, you're serious? Hahahahahahahahaha!
Putting Rick Berman back in charge would =

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Berman had his day. We don’t need more from him.

 

[fireproof78]

Remember when Berman was persona non grata?

 

[Daddy Todd]

Remember when Berman was persona non grata?

For some of us, that “when” is “right now.”

 

[STEPhon IT]

THIS was one the greatest moments from CBS ALLACCESS + Trek.

 

[cultcross]

The whole "real fan" nonsense needs to be shoved out an airlock. Down with gatekeeping!

Real gatekeepers know to classify shows by more important things like the colour of nacelles

 

[shyborg]

The whole "real fan" nonsense needs to be shoved out an airlock. Down with gatekeeping!

I think Trek is one of the interesting franchises that has endured because of fans. Each show and movie may just have fans exclusive to that title. But the fans and those titles contributed to the franchise. We wouldn't have the current output without their efforts and interest

 

[Greg Cox]

I think Trek is one of the interesting franchises that has endured because of fans. Each show and movie may just have fans exclusive to that title. But the fans and those titles contributed to the franchise. We wouldn't have the current output without their efforts and interest

To be clear, I'm not bashing fans or fandom. I'm a fan, most of my friends and colleagues are fans, SF conventions are my happy place. Fandom has been a huge part of my life.

My objection was the whole pernicious "real fan" or "true fan" business which implies that some fans outrank others Insisting that some fans are Trekkier than others suggests:

1) Everybody else is a fake fan and therefore don't count or matter.

2) There's an official party line that all "real fans" support and anyone who disagrees is, bingo, not a "real fan."

3) That STAR TREK is only for the "real fans," not casual fans, newcomers, or (gasp!) the general audience. At worst, this manifests as sneering at "the masses" and adopting an "us" against "them" mentality towards the rest of the audience.

4) And, yes, it invariably lends itself to gatekeeping, i.e. a cliquish mentality that can be very unwelcoming to anyone who doesn't meet the "real fan's" exacting standards. "You call yourself a Trek fan? Why, I bet you don't even know the exact terms of the Organian Peace Treaty!"

In short, fans are great. Fandom is great. But I have no patience for insular fannish elitism.

(Not just a STAR TREK thing, btw. This can be found in most any fandom. I still remember the guy who told me I wasn't a "real" SUPERMAN fan even though he hadn't even been born when I was watching George Reeves on our old b/w TV back in the day.)

 

[shyborg]

To be clear, I'm not bashing fans or fandom. I'm a fan, most of my friends and colleagues are fans, SF conventions are my happy place. Fandom has been a huge part of my life.

My objection was the whole pernicious "real fan" or "true fan" business which implies that some fans outrank others Insisting that some fans are Trekkier than others suggests:

1) Everybody else is a fake fan and therefore don't count or matter.

2) There's an official party line that all "real fans" support and anyone who disagrees is, bingo, not a "real fan."

3) That STAR TREK is only for the "real fans," not casual fans, newcomers, or (gasp!) the general audience. At worst, this manifests as sneering at "the masses" and adopting an "us" against "them" mentality towards the rest of the audience.

4) And, yes, it invariably lends itself to gatekeeping, i.e. a cliquish mentality that can be very unwelcoming to anyone who doesn't meet the "real fan's" exacting standards. "You call yourself a Trek fan? Why, I bet you don't even know the exact terms of the Organian Peace Treaty!"

In short, fans are great. Fandom is great. But I have no patience for insular fannish elitism.

(Not just a STAR TREK thing, btw. This can be found in most any fandom. I still remember the guy who told me I wasn't a "real" SUPERMAN fan even though he hadn't even been born when I was watching George Reeves on our old b/w TV back in the day.)

I didn't think you were bashing either but apologies if I made it sound that way

The insular fan elitism is indeed illogical. This behavior serves no one other than their arrogance or insecurity. There are a ton of reasons why people can like something and they can like it however they want.

One of things I've gotten to enjoy from diving into this fandom is how many different perspectives I've come across. How I can analyze, criticize, but also still enjoy something despites it's imperfections

 

[F. King Daniel]

It occurs to me that with all the NX-01 Enterprise references in recent Picard that if that show came out in the 2000's everyone would be complaining about their "true" Trek being contaminated by the evil, horrible, uncanon, non-Roddenberry new stuff.

Just the same as certain fans today balk at Discovery/SNW references in Picard.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yep, the Cycle of Fandom. We hate it when it's new (unless it's specifically catering to nostalgia) but once it ends, it becomes an Old Favorite that's better than the crap we're currently being served.

 

[shyborg]

Yep, the Cycle of Fandom. We hate it when it's new (unless it's specifically catering to nostalgia) but once it ends, it becomes an Old Favorite that's better than the crap we're currently being served.

I guess it's displacement? That some fans feel the new "replaces, minimizes, eliminates" what came before. But after some time to acclimate they're more open to the new one

 

[cooleddie74]

Hell, ENT has gotten a surprising amount of love since 2005. It's also the only one of the series that's canon and part of history in both the Prime and Kelvin timelines. Trek 2009 as well as BEY reference the show and in at least one instance a reference that's such a deep cut even a huge ENT fan like me missed it the first time around (Melvaran mud fleas).

 

[Greg Cox]

It occurs to me that with all the NX-01 Enterprise references in recent Picard that if that show came out in the 2000's everyone would be complaining about their "true" Trek being contaminated by the evil, horrible, uncanon, non-Roddenberry new stuff.

Just the same as certain fans today balk at Discovery/SNW references in Picard.

Yep. I remember when ENTERPRISE was vilified weekly for "violating canon" and "character assassinating" the Vulcans. Yet now it's apparently a venerable component of "real" Trek -- as opposed to that heretical new stuff.