E-Book Status

[bennyrex]

But surely that's what the collections were for - so people who like SCE but find it difficult to read e-books could support the line?

So they could read them, yes, but that's not sufficient support, especially not with the reprints coming out years after the original tales were bought and paid for. You can't support a TV series if you refuse to watch it in first-run and wait for the DVDs, at least not under the current business model. When something is intended for first release in a given format, that format is where the company invests its money and effort; everything else is secondary. So if it can't survive in the format it's meant for, it gets cancelled. Look at Firefly. It got weak ratings on TV, so its killer sales on DVD were not sufficient to get it back on the air.

Maybe at some point in the future, CoE will come back in a paperback format, and at that point buying the paperbacks will be supporting the line, because that would then be the original format of the line. But as long as it was an eBook series, support had to come from eBook sales.

This is the quote that had me thinking buying the paperbacks wouldn't be the support I was hoping it would be. I guess it doesn't matter that much either way as I plan on buying the books whether it'd be 'support' or not.

Christopher... wasn't it the DVD sales that got Serenity off the ground as a movie? Although, granted, we're getting into cross-formats here. Bah, I'm just a layman when it comes to this sort of thing. I'll just buy the books and hope the money and sale statistic will go somewhere useful. As well as enjoy some (what I'm assuming will be) damn good stories.

Thanks for the clarification, KRAD.

 

[KRAD]

I don't find reading long fiction on a computer screen pleasurable.

I'm curious what your definition of "long" is here, because the Trek eBook originals are only around 20,000 words long (well, okay, a range between 10,000 and 35,000 depending). We're not talking about full novels here. I'm not denying your lack of pleasure, I'm just wondering if the original eBooks Pocket published actually qualified as "long fiction" by the standards you're setting.

Christopher... wasn't it the DVD sales that got Serenity off the ground as a movie?

Yeah, and the movie tanked. (And I say that a) as a fan and b) as the guy who novelized the film...)

 

[Therin of Andor]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

The three S&S Audioworks "Captain Sulu" original audios never got paper adaptations. Didn't help them to continue as an original audio line.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The three S&S Audioworks "Captain Sulu" original audios never got paper adaptations. Didn't help them to continue as an original audio line.

Why should the Captain Sulu audios have had novelizations?

Yes, it would have brought the stories to a wider audience, but there would have been the added costs involved. A writer would have to be contracted. The book would have to be edited. The manuscript would have to be approved, and printed. Essentially, a novelization of a Captain Sulu audio would have been an entirely new novel from the ground-up. Novelizations wouldn't have helped the Captain Sulu audios continue.

Whereas an SCE reprint isn't. The books are already written. They've already been edited. There would be additional layout costs, perhaps even another round of Paramount approvals, but the expenses would have been quite low.

Comparing Captain Sulu audios to SCE is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

 

[Defcon]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

Or the line would have stopped even earlier. Do you know for sure that the line wasn't short of being chopped in the past, and only the additional profit from the paper reprints persuaded those who decide such things to give it another chance?

Since we both don't know anything about the actual decisionmaking, your theory is as (in)valid as mine.

 

[Geoff]

I can tell you about one or two other things I don't find pleasurable that most women probably do (and some things I do find pleasurable that many women probably don't), but you may not want me to go there.

Oh, by all means, feel free! But let me dim the lights a bit first...


For me, the biggest problem is not the format; it's the notion that you never truly own a copy of an eBook. Due to the nightmare of "Digital Rights Management," what you actually own is just a license to read the book. And if anything happens to your digital library, you are entirely at the mercy of the publisher as to whether or not you will be granted a new license or not.

Sure, we're told that you can always download it again from the publisher, but what if the publisher goes out of business, or simply chooses not to support the format any longer? What if you've changed your email address, and now you can't verify your identity in order to prove you already paid for it?

We've already seen what has happened in the recording industry where they fought tooth and nail to make digital media as inconvenient for the consumer as one could possibly imagine. I'm baffled as to why the publishing industry is following in their footsteps.

 

[JWolf]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

Or the line would have stopped even earlier. Do you know for sure that the line wasn't short of being chopped in the past, and only the additional profit from the paper reprints persuaded those who decide such things to give it another chance?

Since we both don't know anything about the actual decision making, your theory is as (in)valid as mine.

There are 49 eBooks in reprints currently. There are more eBooks then that obviously. So purchasing only the reprints means the money spent on the eBooks that have not yet been reprinted has not been made back thus making a good reason for taking the hiatus. Also, another issue not yet brought up is the reprints take a slot in the schedule. If people bought the eBooks, there'd be no need for the reprints.

 

[Amy Sisson]

I'm curious what your definition of "long" is here, because the Trek eBook originals are only around 20,000 words long (well, okay, a range between 10,000 and 35,000 depending). We're not talking about full novels here. I'm not denying your lack of pleasure, I'm just wondering if the original eBooks Pocket published actually qualified as "long fiction" by the standards you're setting.

I suppose it's pretty arbitrary, as are most likes and dislikes, but I meant anything beyond "short story" -- and to take the Hugo definition, that's anything beyond 7500 words.

(Apropos of nothing, I've recently heard 4000 words called the "sweet spot" for short stories, I think by Jay Lake. It's certainly true that many short fiction markets tell potential submitters that 2000-6000 word stories have the best chance of being purchased.)

Apologies if I came across as snarky. This tends to be one of those topics that gets people going, me included. People try to convince me why I should like chocolate chip cookies too, and that doesn't work either.

 

[Defcon]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

Or the line would have stopped even earlier. Do you know for sure that the line wasn't short of being chopped in the past, and only the additional profit from the paper reprints persuaded those who decide such things to give it another chance?

Since we both don't know anything about the actual decision making, your theory is as (in)valid as mine.

There are 49 eBooks in reprints currently. There are more eBooks then that obviously. So purchasing only the reprints means the money spent on the eBooks that have not yet been reprinted has not been made back thus making a good reason for taking the hiatus. Also, another issue not yet brought up is the reprints take a slot in the schedule. If people bought the eBooks, there'd be no need for the reprints.

In the month the first reprint was published (January 2002), only the 12th eBook was published. Since there is a certain lead time before the book actually hits the shelves, it's likely that the decision to publish paperback reprints was made after significantly less the ten published e-Books. Do you think they would have continued the line much longer without the reprints, if they were searching for additional profits this early on in the line's history?

 

[Christopher]

I'm kind of sad to hear that buying the collections won't help the series get past its hiatus.

I never said that, and if anyone else said that, they were wrong. Buying the collections absolutely will help. If they sell well, it's ammunition that I can bring the higher-ups to say, "See? There's an audience for this!"

I think it's a misunderstanding of something I said. I never said that buying the collections wouldn't do any good at all; I said that, under the business model that the original line was put out in, buying the collections wouldn't have been enough by itself to support the eBook line. Being a helpful supplement to something else is not the same as being able to take the place of something else. (Like airbags. They can help keep you safe, but only if you wear your seatbelt. They aren't enough to keep you safe by themselves.)

And I think that fits with what you're saying. You're saying that good sales for the collections can help by showing that there's an audience for the series, but even so, if it comes back as eBooks, plenty of people are still going to have to buy the actual eBooks in order for it to work. If the only viable market for CoE were in paperback form, then the best way to bring CoE back would be in paperbacks instead of eBooks.

 

[BrotherBenny]

Foe me the issue is simply one of practicality and cost. Of the four main eBook readers available (excluding PCs, Macs, Blackberrys, palm pilots and PDAs) only two are available in the UK (CyBook and iReader [or whatever the damn thing is called]) and they are overpriced and unwieldy. The Kindle cannot work in the UK currently because of the Whispernet thing; and Sony in their infinite wisdom (read stupidity) have not released the PRS-505 in Europe, and they are not currently planning to, according to the boss who emailed me back.

As soon as the PRS-505 or one of its successors reaches these green and pleasant lands I will buy it and get the eBooks to fill it up. That isn't a lie, or an exaggeration, that is a given fact.

 

[KRAD]

People try to convince me why I should like chocolate chip cookies too, and that doesn't work either.

You don't like chocolate chip cookies????

STONE THE HERETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dayton Ward]

I can tell you about one or two other things I don't find pleasurable that most women probably do (and some things I do find pleasurable that many women probably don't), but you may not want me to go there.

Screw all this e-Book nonsense. This is a topic worthy of further exploration.

 

[JWolf]

Foe me the issue is simply one of practicality and cost. Of the four main eBook readers available (excluding PCs, Macs, Blackberrys, palm pilots and PDAs) only two are available in the UK (CyBook and iReader [or whatever the damn thing is called]) and they are overpriced and unwieldy. The Kindle cannot work in the UK currently because of the Whispernet thing; and Sony in their infinite wisdom (read stupidity) have not released the PRS-505 in Europe, and they are not currently planning to, according to the boss who emailed me back.

As soon as the PRS-505 or one of its successors reaches these green and pleasant lands I will buy it and get the eBooks to fill it up. That isn't a lie, or an exaggeration, that is a given fact.

Well someone spotted this at play.com... the Sony PRS-505. And for those that do not know, play.com is a UK online shop.

Sony PRS-505 at play.com

 

[Turbo]

Foe me the issue is simply one of practicality and cost. Of the four main eBook readers available (excluding PCs, Macs, Blackberrys, palm pilots and PDAs) only two are available in the UK (CyBook and iReader [or whatever the damn thing is called]) and they are overpriced and unwieldy. The Kindle cannot work in the UK currently because of the Whispernet thing; and Sony in their infinite wisdom (read stupidity) have not released the PRS-505 in Europe, and they are not currently planning to, according to the boss who emailed me back.

As soon as the PRS-505 or one of its successors reaches these green and pleasant lands I will buy it and get the eBooks to fill it up. That isn't a lie, or an exaggeration, that is a given fact.

Well someone spotted this at play.com... the Sony PRS-505. And for those that do not know, play.com is a UK online shop.

Sony PRS-505 at play.com

Except that there's no price, no release date, and no pre-orders being taken.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

I enjoy the SCE/COE series very much and regret it that it comes to an end. I am sure, it is because of the original ebook format and not because of any lack of quality. Yes, of course, I enjoyed some stories more than others but in general I think it is a great series. To me, it is far from over because I am even behind reading the paperback reprints. There is still a lot I can look forward to.

I never said it aloud here because it wasn`t and still isn`t a popular opinion to voice but I am not surprised that ebooks are not very popular and I already wondered when I got my first SCE book how long Star Trek in ebook format will last. Many reasons have already been mentioned in this thread. Me personally, my biggest problem is that I am not very technology-literate. I wouldn`t even be here without my husband`s help. The format confusions make matters worse and on top of that, I don`t trust the durability of computer files of all kinds. I have floppies I can`t read any more, either because they have degraded or got damaged or because my husband has retired the necessary hardware. And even if he would dig it up again from the loft, who knows if it would still work, including old programs you might need? Every few years there is some catastrophic event that means we need a new computer and various old programs, folders and texts are gone in spite we back up a lot. I heard it more than once that ebooks get lost for good in such events and if I break an ebook reader who knows if I would get the texts back especially if I don`t want to pay for them all over again? My oldest paper books I have are about 100 years old, books I inherited from my grandparents. I am afraid, a lot of ebooks won`t be available any more for download after a few years.

I also don`t think it is accurate to think that Star Trek fans, SF fans, are more open towards modern technology. Not everyone loves SF because of futuristic technology. I never liked hardcore SF much.

I have been criticised for using the word “real”, therefore I say physical book in order to describe the difference between ebooks and the ones on my book shelf. Ebooks are something abstract to me. I prefer the feeling of a physical book in my hands. I had to prop up the big Harry Potter books on a pillow in order to be comfortable but still, also with such big books I enjoy snuggling in bed with a good book.

I don`t like the ebook format but I will definitely continue buying the paperback reprints.

 

[T'Bonz]

For me, the biggest problem is not the format; it's the notion that you never truly own a copy of an eBook. Due to the nightmare of "Digital Rights Management," what you actually own is just a license to read the book. And if anything happens to your digital library, you are entirely at the mercy of the publisher as to whether or not you will be granted a new license or not.

Sure, we're told that you can always download it again from the publisher, but what if the publisher goes out of business, or simply chooses not to support the format any longer? What if you've changed your email address, and now you can't verify your identity in order to prove you already paid for it?

That would be a REAL problem for me. It's bad enough that I've had to pay for CDs to replace vinyl or for DVDs to replace VHS, but they're mine and no one can take them away until they come out with yet another format and do away with the one I have.

If I had a hand-held reader and I bought a book, I want it to be mine, to reread once or to read a hundred times. I don't want to RENT a book.

I tend to own books long-term. I still have my best books (and every single Star Trek one I bought) dating back to the early 1970s.

 

[ronny]

To be honest, I do wish the paper reprints of SCE/CoE never happened. That way everyone would have to ge the eBooks and maybe we'd still have more coming out.

that's not what would have happened. at least for me anyway.

first of all, the idea of SCE just didn't excite me at all when i found out about it. a bunch of guys standing around in engineering solving problems by speaking in TECH. well obviously i was wrong there as that's not what the series is about but i didn't know that.

and i wasn't going to find out because the series was coming out on e-book. now i'm not an e-book hater. i haven't bought any ST e-books but i have read stories, plays and various things on my palm. i just prefer dead tree over e-book. it's nothing i'm going to argue about. it's like coke/pepsi. i have a preference but i don't freak out if someone likes it the other way.

so you have a series i'm not interested in, in a format i'm not in to. and i've got a big backlog of ST books to read anyway. i wasn't going to be getting e-books any time soon.

then i saw the first couple of SCE reprints at a used book store and bought them because people kept saying how great the series was. i wasn't amazed by the first book and was kind of annoyed it ended on a surprise cliff hanger. i complained on the boards somewhere and KRAD said yeah, the e-books weren't designed to be published in dead tree form and because of word count, etc that's just where we ended the first book. they weren't planning on ending each book on a cliff hanger to force you get the next one. so i read the next one and it was better. and i just kept buying them. at the new book store now. and i haven't gotten around to getting e-books because i always seem to be a book behind. i've got Creative Couplings on my shelf and will read it soon, probably before the next one comes out but that will satisfy my SCE fix until the next book comes out.

and the TOS and TNG e-book series? i know the TOS e-book series spans the time frame from first episode to last movie and Constellations all takes place during the series but I just felt like I had had my fix of TOS short stories at the moment. And although there have been a lot of great TNG books, as a whole I just prefer TOS and DS9 over TNG so i haven't been planning on getting that series in e-book form. i'm sure i'll be getting them when they are reprinted in dead tree form. now if there had been a DS9 e-book series i would have bought that, even though we already had Prophecy and Change. because it was DS9, the format would have mattered less.

all of that is just a long winded way of saying the reason i didn't buy any e-books is because of a combination my preference of format, my perception, wrong i admit, of what the series was about and my reading habits.

hmmm, i started off by making a point that when someone says not printing the collections would increase e-book sales, i don't believe that. well maybe sales would increase a little but i'm guessing not enough to matter. i guess i wondered a bit.

 

[Trent Roman]

Also, another issue not yet brought up is the reprints take a slot in the schedule.

This seems to have slipped through. The schedule was limited to one mass market paperback per month, but we've been told, and by now have had plenty of chance to observe, that trades and hardbacks, being seperate formats, don't count towards the one-a-month policy. They're extra. Nor are there monthly trades, that a reprint would take up a slot that would otherwise have been used by an original work. If there's a scheduling conflict, it's easy to just push back a reprint to the next available month. Indeed, S.C.E. reprints, because they presumably take less work to prepare than original trades, should make excellant slot-fillers if there's ever a problem with getting one of the original trades to market.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Amy Sisson]

Screw all this e-Book nonsense. This is a topic worthy of further exploration.

Clearly I should not have posted when I'd been drinking wine....

Rather than go into details, I'll just stick to the part about not liking chocolate chip cookies. Even if it means KRAD is gonna send his groupies to stone the heretic!