How? He's an explorer. He's not a diplomat, he's not an ambassador. His job is exploring inside the Federation. He has difficulties with people getting his people killed.
Despite his asshole nature he strikes me as reasonable.
Paramount apparently still doesn't get it...
- Thread starter IRW Bloodwing
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Despite his asshole nature he strikes me as reasonable.
But there's no evidence that he's ever screwed up a mission, botched a First Contact, endangered a ship unnecessarily, gotten a crew member killed, etc. He may have substituted asshole for charm, but it doesn't seem to have affected Titan's ability to chart gaseous anomalies, deliver supplies to distant colonies, or whatever other routine missions they were assigned.
He may not be a heroic, exemplary role model, but that's a plus, not a job requirement. And, as a fictional character, he serves to bring things down to earth and act as something of an audience surrogate. "Jesus, more weird crap to deal with?"
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And he gets the best lines! 'I'll leave so you can get your bullshit story straight!But there's no evidence that he's ever screwed up a mission, botched a First Contact, endangered a ship unnecessarily, gotten a crew member killed, etc. He may have substituted asshole for charm, but it doesn't seem to have affected Titan's ability to chart gaseous anomalies, deliver supplies to distant colonies, or whatever other routine missions they were assigned.
He not be a heroic, exemplary role model, but that's a plus, not a job requirement. And, as a fictional character, he serves to bring things down earth and act as something of an audience surrogate. "Jesus, more weird crap to deal with?"
You know, one thing that strikes me about Shaw is that, in addition to his reluctance to put his crew in danger, in the midst of all this crisis, one of the first things he did when there was even a moment to spare was tell his bridge crew to get some sleep after expressing concern for how long they'd been on duty.
I think Shaw was an asshole to Seven in particular, but he is probably in general the kind of guy who really does care about the welfare of his crew and is considerate of their needs.
*shrugs* It strikes me as an indicator that he is probably pretty good at managing people most of the time.
If he was a through the ranks officer then he would know to put his crew's needs up on the priority list for their effectiveness.
Also, he doesn't value being lied too.
Also, he doesn't value being lied too.
I went in thinking of Shaw as, "This is like a TOS Movie, so he's Captain Asshole!" I wouldn't have wanted a series starring Esteban or Stiles. Shaw is more likeable though, since he's getting 10 episodes of screen time, and this isn't the '80s anymore, so he's allowed to have more dimensions.
Whatever it is that appeals to people about Shaw simply does not work for me. At all. Among other things, the absolute pettiness of his refusal to call Seven by the name she prefers to be called is something I can't get my head around - particularly given he apparently requested her as his first officer. It denotes a lack of respect and courtesy for her that is beyond mere arseholery IMO. Sisko was never that juvenile. But each to their own. I'd watch a series with Seven / Ryan but if Shaw was also involved he'd have to become much more interesting - and less of a jerk - than he is now.
Anyway. I've never found an Academy series appealing so while I'll probably have a look I won't have any expectation of actually liking it. If any sort of Legacy series gets off the ground my interest will depend very much on the premise and the characters.
Anyway. I've never found an Academy series appealing so while I'll probably have a look I won't have any expectation of actually liking it. If any sort of Legacy series gets off the ground my interest will depend very much on the premise and the characters.
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This. Plus, if Academy ends up being what I think it is, they already have everything they need to get the ball rolling and production moving quickly. It would likely take a lot less time and money to get it off the ground than any Legacy type series, which will also involve well known stars whose notoriety demand higher salaries.
The best thing about Shaw, for me, is Todd Stashwick. I follow him on Twitter, and he is a delight.
Sydney is hardly a character, all she does is remind people who her famous dad is.
Hell, even the changeling impersonating her reminds everyone of the same.
I love how people are shitting on a show that exists as little more than a blurb right now. People already declaring ‘it won’t be a hit’.
With the right cast, characters and writing then it could be massive. Without the above, it could flop… but we’ve got no way to tell right now.
The sky is always falling in Star Trek land.
The optimist in me wants Starfleet Academy to be the greatest Star Trek show ever made. The realist in me doesn't think that is remotely going to happen. I'm not 'shitting' on the show; I'm making an informed opinion based on everything we know right now. That opinion might change in April of 2024.
Starfleet Academy leaves me with a "We'll see." I feel like with this type of show, I should not be the target audience. But, then again, I'm not the target audience for Prodigy. Go figure.
If I stop watching it, like I did Lower Decks, it'll be more of a "It's not my thing" type of deal.
It's hard for me to talk about Shaw without also going into spoilers. I'll put it this way, like I did in the PIC Forum: I'd be more interested in Legacy because of Seven, not so much Shaw. Not at this point anyway. Which is not a slight to the actor who plays him. If they do more with Shaw, I think he'd be up to the challenge. I'm just not a "normal guy" type of guy. If you're weird, if you're out there, if you're "other", if others have misjudged you and treat you unfairly, then you're my type of person and my type of character.
If I stop watching it, like I did Lower Decks, it'll be more of a "It's not my thing" type of deal.
It's hard for me to talk about Shaw without also going into spoilers. I'll put it this way, like I did in the PIC Forum: I'd be more interested in Legacy because of Seven, not so much Shaw. Not at this point anyway. Which is not a slight to the actor who plays him. If they do more with Shaw, I think he'd be up to the challenge. I'm just not a "normal guy" type of guy. If you're weird, if you're out there, if you're "other", if others have misjudged you and treat you unfairly, then you're my type of person and my type of character.
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Good job I wasn't referring to you then, Mr Dukhat. Your posts in the thread have been entirely reasonable and agreeable.
He might not fit into classic TNG, but he fits in quite well with the darker, edgier place that the late 24th/early 25th ST universe has become. The Federation's flaws have been brought more into focus starting with DS9.
I think that is an unfair assessment of the character. We've learned a lot about her. She's estranged from her father and (to a degree) her sister because of her choice to follow the Helm/Command career path. She has a bit of a reckless streak (how she earned her nickname, a certain thing she does with Jack at the museum, etc). She's obviously attracted to Jack as well.
Losing 100s of 1000s of experienced crew would do that. Between the Klingon War, the Dominion war, and the attack on Mars, starfleet literally lost 1000s of starships. It makes sense they'd be drawing on every experienced officer, even if they aren't the perfect CO choice.
Shaw, Raffi, and Rios are not that similar, in my view. Shaw seems to have a purpose in life and a place he feels he fits in, while Raffi and Rios lost their purpose and place to fit in, for different reasons. Rios dealt with some of his issues by having all those various holograms of himself, which actually added some depth to him. I also found the idea of those holograms being like versions of his split personality funny and intriguing at the same time. Rios, at least, ended up with a purpose and place to fit in and belong, so in that regard he got a happy ending. (Though I would have preferred to keep him on PICARD.)
One thing Shaw and Rios do share is a guilt complex... one for following bad orders, the other for surviving a massacre. Raffi had guilt about getting Elnor killed, but a lot of her choices seemed rather selfish in nature. (Pushing her family away to keep on her conspiracy quest, getting Elnor to stick around, going the drug path.)
Raffi, until this season, was problematic for me. She always had this cloud of doom and gloom, for lack of a better term. It felt like she brought other characters down with her. Being paired with Worf has really livened her up... even cracking jokes regularly. Also, she went down a drug addiction path while she had a son. I've never been drawn to characters that do that... that's another form of abandoning your kid. So while these may not seem like 'objective' reasons, they are not invalid reasons why Raffi doesn't work for me. I'm sure people who haven't taken to Raffi or Rios have their own reasons for not enjoying those characters that have nothing to do with any kind of racial bias.
In my experience, automatically assuming such biases on others says more about the person making those accusations than the intended target of those accusations.
They are all Starfleet veterans facing severe PTSD and guilt, and cope with it in unhealthy ways.
Nah. He may be a good manager, but he's also rather obviously uncomfortable with himself and his place in life. "Sorry, I confused being an asshole with having a personality" is not the self-assessment of someone who has a purpose in life and a place he feels he fits in.
Refusing to respect the identity of his XB first officer isn't selfish?
Being paired with Worf has led to the writers infantilizing her.
A friend of mine put it better than I ever could: "Anyway it's fascinating to see who gets to be a dick and is told it's endearing, and who gets to have trauma excuse bad action. And it's fascinating how it's certainly not the black female characters. But we won't talk about that."
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