He was refreshing, he had a different philosophy which created conflict. No sign of aping or trying to leap over the bar of Montalban. A good antagonist after TVH.
Star Trek V isn't that bad...
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Right. I loved that he was shades of gray, and not the standard maniacal baddie.
I stand corrected, thanks!
Still it makes you wonder why Roddenberry opposed ST: TFF, when he himself had worked on similar script. Maybe because his story sought to make the entire Judeo-Christian religion an alien hoax, Shatner's script was only about a misled religious leader? Or just petty jealousy, since his creative control over the movie series was cut after TMP? After all, he allowed only TOS Seasons 1 and 2, TMP and TNG as acceptable sources to the comic writers.
The same reason Harve Bennett threatened to sue over Star Trek 2009 — Roddenberry was incensed that an idea he couldn’t make fly was seemingly picked up by someone else a decade and a half later and made into a big-budget movie. Without any credit to him as the originator of the idea.
That’s not to say Roddenberry’s idea in any way influenced Shatner. Because “Kirk versus god” is such an obvious plot that lots of writers could come up with it independently. Just like how Roddenberry claimed “The Changeling” wasn’t a direct inspiration for TMP, despite the apparent parallels.
Roddenberry opposed every TOS movie script for various reasons, other than TMP (and even that, he "opposed" to the point of driving Livingston and Wise insane).
Did Roddenberry opposed every TOS movie script? Check out the audio commentary with Nimoy and Shatner in TVH; in it he mentioned he discussed his idea with Roddenberry and approved of it. Of course that wasn't the script he mentioned but the idea. I haven't read anything on TVH script but whatever his critiques were, I'm can only refer to what he wrote on TWOK and TSFS, his were logical and showed he understood the characters and his audience.
According to Star Trek Movie Memories, William Shatner was influenced by a couple of successful televangelists at the time. And knowing that, I appreciate the movie more.
The only thing that's bad about the movie is the SFX.
Shatner didn't write the movie. David Loughery did.
The story was developed in cooperation between Loughery, Shatner and Bennett, and it was the script Shatner used for his film.
TFF is akin to some of TOS’ disappointing episodes in there being a good story in it, but something is off. Yes, the VFX are very disappointing even by 1980’s standards. Some of the humour is seemingly out of place. I also greatly disliked making the new ship a lemon. Much of it came off as making fun of our heroes rather than laughing with them.
Succinctly only a bit of tweaking, and better fx, would have improved things immensely.
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Yeah I disliked the idea that the new ship was a clunker..really doesn’t make sense if you think about it.Also does the Enterprise seem ‘empty’ to anyone else?
One line of dialogue would have explained Sybok and his origin and subsequent expulsion from Vulcan.”His name never to be mentioned again” sort of thing.
Much like one line of dialogue musing on just who or what had imprisoned the entity (I refuse to call it God).
One line of dialogue would have explained Sybok and his origin and subsequent expulsion from Vulcan.”His name never to be mentioned again” sort of thing.
Much like one line of dialogue musing on just who or what had imprisoned the entity (I refuse to call it God).
How many other people ever rewatch and think the same as me? I seem to forget that their were Klingons in the film, and what their purpose was (can someone remind me what their purpose actually was?)
The enterprise having problems never bothers me, it adds to the charm of the film, i mean it must have been bad as they seem to fully rebuild it before the next movie.
The enterprise having problems never bothers me, it adds to the charm of the film, i mean it must have been bad as they seem to fully rebuild it before the next movie.
Klaa is bored. That's his motivation.
He was also sent to recover General Korrd. But, mostly bored.
No. He literally finds out that the Enterprise was sent. Enterprise is Kirk's ship. Facing down Kirk is an adventure.Maybe he had read the script?
He's a bored Klingon with the attitude of a teenager looking for a thrill ride.
Please don’t kick me off this site when I just got here but…I actually love Star Trek 5. The overall plot I think is fascinating and very much a true reflection on people who can’t separate what feels good for themselves from what is good for themselves. In fact, though I loved it as a kid as well, I enjoyed it even more when I started to go to AA a few years ago when I quit drinking. I think Kirk’s speech about what pain is probably speaks to me as much as anything else in Star Trek.
Anyway, I hope I’m not excommunicated here. Because I just found this forum :-)
Anyway, I hope I’m not excommunicated here. Because I just found this forum :-)
Ha, welcome to the forum.
Nothing wrong with any of that. You don't get kicked off even if you love Nemesis.
Kirk’s line, “I need my pain.” is so very in character.
It’s almost fashionable to hate on TFF, but this whole thread is really about discussing its redemptive elements, and it definitely has those.
The other thing about TFF, like TOS: even when it’s disappointing it’s never boring.
It’s almost fashionable to hate on TFF, but this whole thread is really about discussing its redemptive elements, and it definitely has those.
The other thing about TFF, like TOS: even when it’s disappointing it’s never boring.
I love the campfire scenes that bookend the film. McCoy/Spock humor never gets old. 
I agree that Kirk's comment on needing his pain was a great moment, though my personal favourite scene is seeing McCoy's memory of losing his father.
Now aside from those moments, it's my least favorite TOS film, but I agree it's not dull. There are a lot of good intentions, however.
I agree that Kirk's comment on needing his pain was a great moment, though my personal favourite scene is seeing McCoy's memory of losing his father.
Now aside from those moments, it's my least favorite TOS film, but I agree it's not dull. There are a lot of good intentions, however.
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