Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread

[Lord Garth]

This is a fan edit someone did of 10 minutes from Nemesis with the Riker/Troi wedding (and deleted portions added in) followed by a scene that was cut entirely with Picard and Data talking about both the passage of time and the future. Forget the rest of the movie. These 10 minutes here feel very much like a prequel to Picard, especially Season 3.

I think the timing works well to post this since everyone's back now.

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[NCC-73515]

The audio commentary for Yesterday's Enterprise has people marvel about how nice the sets look when they're much darker and blueish

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I think we will have a fully restored Data by the end.

I think Worf will die.

 

[Roald]

Screeners have been released for eps 7 and 8, the buzz for especially ep 8 is amazing..!

 

[Visitor1982]

Episode 8 is probably the one with the photo from Geordi on a certain location...

 

[Tomalak]

I don't think any of the TNG cast will die either. If anything, this show is resurrecting characters.

Ro's sacrifice was meaningful, and they've already killed and revived Picard and Data on this show.

The one who has a target on their back for me is Jack, but ultimately I think he'll be fine.

 

[BandoOfBorg]

Between Picard S3 and SNW we're getting the best Trek ever. I am constantly amazed at the quality of the writing and presentation for this season of Picard.

Given the talk about a Legacy series, I'm not sure any of the main TNG characters are going to die this season. If anyone does, I think it might be Picard himself. Stewart is 82 years old, how much longer does he want to do this?

 

[Tuskin38]

I think we will have a fully restored Data by the end.

I doubt it. I think all the personalities will combine to create a new character.

 

[iTako]

I think the fact that Terry is talking openly about Legacy, instead of keeping quiet, means it's more likely or not that series will be happening. If he had doubts, he wouldn't blurt something like that out on Twitter because that would be using social media to blackmail Paramount. That wouldn't be a good luck from their POV. So yeah...

Spoiler

I think Shaw and Seven both survive. The only wildcard is Jack, IMO.

I have my serious doubts that a Titan series is in the cards. I think if anything, Matalas is talking so much about it to keep up the pressure. Plus, I think it was Stashwick who said on twitter that he has had no meetings with the people who would be responsible for such a call yet.

While fan pressure gave us SNW, it’s a different streaming landscape now. It’s no longer about creating expensive content to drive subscribers. It’s about cutting costs and Trek ain’t cheap.

 

[Pauln6]

SPOILERS

There's a very strong dystopian theme running through all the modern Trek, with multiple plots involving infiltration, destabilisation, corruption, and factionalism within the Federation or, more specifically, Starfleet.

I have also noticed that the returning characters are also more narrow minded selfish and self-interested, concerned with protecting their own families above all else. Rafi's decision to place duty above self-interest is portrayed as stark and binary - she cannot support her family by doing her duty. Riker has similarly abandoned his family to (selfishly since he is running away) perform his duty.

The idealism of Roddenberry's left wing utopia has been deconstructed to a large degree. Even in a post scarcity society there is poverty, medical and mental health rationing, judgemental attitudes to mental health, and hoarding of technology.

It seems to me that the only currencies worth a damn should be knowledge and energy production. Why write the show in a way that involves hoarding so much more?

What possessed the writers to steer so far away from Roddenberry's vision? Was it just for the drama and they had no concept of what they were dismantling? Is it just reflective of how disgusting the human race is becoming but if so, surely we need the utopian ideal even more?

Suddenly Worf's laissez-faire approach to parenting is looking more and more the way to go but I am hoping that Troi is going to turn out as the blunt bad ass she should always have been to talk some sense to everyone and school the bad guys in why they should not mess with a daughter of the Fifth House, and heir to the sacred Chalice of Riix.

 

[fireproof78]

There's a very strong dystopian theme running through all the modern Trek, with multiple plots involving infiltration, destabilisation, corruption, and factionalism within the Federation or, more specifically, Starfleet.

With due respect, this started with TNG and DS9. In TNG we had the introduction of the Borg. Previously alien species had demonstrated that many of Trek's problems were solvable with technology. The Borg were Technology run amok, taking over people and damaging individualism, as well as creating the fear of your friends being turned against you. DS9 continued this, showing the fringes of the Federation, the poverty, the failed colonies, and the difficulties of the several wars that TNG had highlighted. The Maquis were another reflection of the factionalism. Even Vulcans in TNG could be infiltrated, and then DS9 reflects this further. Finally, we had the war with the Dominion, were your friends could already be turned against you. Utopia was already deconstructed.

Is it just reflective of how disgusting the human race is becoming but if so, surely we need the utopian ideal even more?

With due respect, the human race has always been this way. Study history and you'll discover just how disgusting humans are capable of being. We are a savage race, with a thousand years of violence behind us. But we're not going to kill today. I don't think we are more disgusting; I think we're more practical. Don't tell me about an ideal without showing me how to get there.

This cuts closer to home for me personally because I work with kids who sometimes feel violence is the only answer. They feel they have no other choice to be heard. Telling them that things will become better is a hollow platitude. Acknowledging the emotion and creating choice, even if it is just as simple as reaching out to myself, or another mental health professional, a peer, or someone, as long as they have choice makes violence less likely. It makes community more likely. It builds honesty, acceptance and cooperation, rather than isolation and being told "You're not good enough to be in this group. You're not smart enough, clean enough, healthy enough. You don't belong in utopia."

We need the ideal, but more than that we need people who are wiling to say "You're accepted here, warts and all. Pain and all. " Don't tell me about utopia; tell me how I can live with myself today. Will you take my hand?

 

[Pauln6]

With due respect, this started with TNG and DS9. In TNG we had the introduction of the Borg. Previously alien species had demonstrated that many of Trek's problems were solvable with technology. The Borg were Technology run amok, taking over people and damaging individualism, as well as creating the fear of your friends being turned against you. DS9 continued this, showing the fringes of the Federation, the poverty, the failed colonies, and the difficulties of the several wars that TNG had highlighted. The Maquis were another reflection of the factionalism. Even Vulcans in TNG could be infiltrated, and then DS9 reflects this further. Finally, we had the war with the Dominion, were your friends could already be turned against you. Utopia was already deconstructed.


With due respect, the human race has always been this way. Study history and you'll discover just how disgusting humans are capable of being. We are a savage race, with a thousand years of violence behind us. But we're not going to kill today. I don't think we are more disgusting; I think we're more practical. Don't tell me about an ideal without showing me how to get there.

This cuts closer to home for me personally because I work with kids who sometimes feel violence is the only answer. They feel they have no other choice to be heard. Telling them that things will become better is a hollow platitude. Acknowledging the emotion and creating choice, even if it is just as simple as reaching out to myself, or another mental health professional, a peer, or someone, as long as they have choice makes violence less likely. It makes community more likely. It builds honesty, acceptance and cooperation, rather than isolation and being told "You're not good enough to be in this group. You're not smart enough, clean enough, healthy enough. You don't belong in utopia."

We need the ideal, but more than that we need people who are wiling to say "You're accepted here, warts and all. Pain and all. " Don't tell me about utopia; tell me how I can live with myself today. Will you take my hand?

Yes, I did think after posting that humanity has been pretty disgusting at every stage each show was made, internment of Japanese citizens some 20 years before TOS was made springs to mind and there have been atrocities committed somewhere in the world every day before and since. I can understand Rafi not wanting help but her back story almost implies that there was no help even offered.

The Borg were an external threat and, while I accept that the internal threat in Picard is an external incursion, I would like to think that a few more people would be questioning the narrative. What's happening on the other ships? Why can't Betazoids detect imposters or at least thier motivations? Why aren't more Starfleet officers querying orders? I'M CAPTAIN KIRK!! Why were what seemed to be two Starfleet officers unrelated to the conspiracy standing by while a prisoner was tortured? What happened to investigative method? That felt like a really odd scene. Does nobody question why a Starfleet officer is being handed over to some random ship? It's a head scratcher.

I think the advantage of sending ships out on 5 year missions is that you can avoid Federation politics and you don't have to worry about what other Starfleet crews are thinking.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Terry said said Deanna isn't going to die. Everyone else is up in the air. I doubt they'll kill Picard again.

"Someone is going to die" was the rumour circulating in 1991 before the release of TUC. It didn't happen because it would have ruined the happy ending, which is what I expect we're heading for with S3.

 

[fireproof78]

Why aren't more Starfleet officers querying orders?

Who says they are not? All it takes is the right people in charge to say "Don't worry about it." Starfleet, especially post Dominion War, is highly hierarchical, and has moved from that questioning authority part to fall in line. Which is reflective of the times we live in as well as how the culture changed because of all the stuff they have dealt with.

And all of this is actually reflective in what Trek has done before. Conspiracy only had a small group questioning it. Ro reminded me of Picard's Captain Friend, Walker I think his name was. But, there was not a huge push to question the orders of the admiralty there either.

So, yeah, all this feels like Trek.

"Someone is going to die" was the rumour circulating in 1991 before the release of TUC. It didn't happen because it would have ruined the happy ending, which is what I expect we're heading for with S3.

Exactly so.

 

[The Old Mixer]

There's a very strong dystopian theme running through all the modern Trek, with multiple plots involving infiltration, destabilisation, corruption, and factionalism within the Federation or, more specifically, Starfleet.

Picard Season 3 is literally revisiting an adversary species and its M.O. that were established in DS9.

 

[Pauln6]

Picard Season 3 is literally revisiting an adversary species and its M.O. that were established in DS9.

Yes, I suppose it was a bit less in your face on DS9 because the story wasn't set in the heart of the Federation but Federation ideology was definitely challenged when they were losing the Dominion War. But that aside, it does feel that the Starfleet default is less utopian now. Season 1 dealt with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus. Are we just witnessing an empire struggling to maintain its ideals as it rebuilds following a destabilising war?

 

[fireproof78]

Are we just witnessing an empire struggling to maintain its ideals as it rebuilds following a destabilising war?

I think we're watching a power have to reassert its values after a war that challenged those values to the core.

 

[Yistaan]

Yes, I suppose it was a bit less in your face on DS9 because the story wasn't set in the heart of the Federation but Federation ideology was definitely challenged when they were losing the Dominion War. But that aside, it does feel that the Starfleet default is less utopian now. Season 1 dealt with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus. Are we just witnessing an empire struggling to maintain its ideals as it rebuilds following a destabilising war?

In many ways this season's story is a rehash of Season 1, to the point we now have to deal with the absurdity of the Zhat Vash AND the changelings infiltrating Starfleet at the same time.

 

[Cube1701]

"Someone is going to die" was the rumour circulating in 1991 before the release of TUC. It didn't happen because it would have ruined the happy ending, which is what I expect we're heading for with S3.

This is the reason for bringing characters like Ro back, so they can have deaths without the main cast dying.

On a similar note, I don't think that putting Kestra in danger fits what they're trying to do with the story, so I reckon that Troi is going to mention that someone is looking after her, either her mother or her brother.

 

[fireproof78]

In many ways this season's story is a rehash of Season 1, to the point we now have to deal with the absurdity of the Zhat Vash AND the changelings infiltrating Starfleet at the same time.

Romulans had infiltrated the Federation before with a Vulcan Ambassador of all things. So, yeah, I don't see this as a stretch.