Star Trek IV warping and sling shot thoughts

[clownprince23]

In Voyage Home, they are in the bird of prey and attempting the time warp. To do that they have to warp at a speed greater then warp 9 and then sling shot around the sun.
But at a speed of warp 9, they should have flown out of the solar system in no time and missed their mark. They should have flown right through the solar system in less time then they had.

So I was thinking, what if it was like revving a car’s engine. They were at warp 9 but not actually going that fast. Like in a car when you rev the engine up but you’re in a lower gear. So your rpm’s shoot up but your speed doesn’t go up nearly as much as it should. Or if your hitting the gas and just sit there spinning tires.

Could they have created a warp 9 size warp bubble, but not actually be going at full speed. One reason why everything on the bridge was shaking. They then enter the suns gravity well, which is already distorting the curvature of space time. So you have this huge warp bubble that’s ready to pop inside a gravity well, when the Enterprise puts it into gear and breaks through.

 

[David cgc]

My head-canon is that gravity wells interfere with warp drive, the flip-side to the "chi" fudge-factor that was made up by fans to account for much, much faster travel times than the on-paper speeds of warp factor whatever. Specifically, strong single-point sources. If you're in a solar system and the primary gravitational influence is main star, that'll slow you down compared to interstellar space where the gravity of all the stars around you is more or less balanced, which would speed you up, and being in intergalactic space where there's hardly any gravity at all leaves you stuck at the rated speed for any given warp factor. It'd explain why having a full-time navigator was so important, to find how to thread between the stars to get the best "traction" and quickest travel over the "terrain" rather than just flying point-to-point, and also why warp-speed projectiles are almost never used; if you try to warp into a planet, you won't get a faster-than-light amount of kinetic energy, you'll slow to a crawl before impact.

So, as you get closer to a star or other large mass, warp speed becomes less and less effective, to the point where a ship can be at, what was it, TOS warp 9.8 (rated at 941c) and still barely be traveling at the speed of light (it'd also explain how Spock's precise thruster blast could make up the difference when the ship maxed out at 8.1 (531c) on the return trip, and also how they could be at warp factor anything and be in danger of not reaching escape velocity).

 

[NCC-73515]

Bozeman had to correct course after the Amargosa star was destroyed, so gravity apparently does affect warp flight

 

[publiusr]

Frame dragging, or something.

 

[STEPhon IT]

In Voyage Home, they are in the bird of prey and attempting the time warp. To do that they have to warp at a speed greater then warp 9 and then sling shot around the sun.
But at a speed of warp 9, they should have flown out of the solar system in no time and missed their mark. They should have flown right through the solar system in less time then they had.

So I was thinking, what if it was like revving a car’s engine. They were at warp 9 but not actually going that fast. Like in a car when you rev the engine up but you’re in a lower gear. So your rpm’s shoot up but your speed doesn’t go up nearly as much as it should. Or if your hitting the gas and just sit there spinning tires.

Could they have created a warp 9 size warp bubble, but not actually be going at full speed. One reason why everything on the bridge was shaking. They then enter the suns gravity well, which is already distorting the curvature of space time. So you have this huge warp bubble that’s ready to pop inside a gravity well, when the Enterprise puts it into gear and breaks through.

That works for me. Do you know does time alters as an object travels to the Sun or a star? As the vessel travels near the Sun, the science and helm are observing their clocks to make the turn , at where they're destined to be in a particular timeline, or loop to go back or forward in time.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Was there ever an explanation for the strange visions, the crew experienced and how they were triggered?

 

[STEPhon IT]

No, but I suspected it was an after effect from the time warp causing the crew to experience future events they're going to see come true.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

No, but I suspected it was an after effect from the time warp causing the crew to experience future events they're going to see come true.

Yeah, could be. But i was thinking more about the strange shapes they saw during the time warp.

 

[Qonundrum]

My head-canon is that gravity wells interfere with warp drive, the flip-side to the "chi" fudge-factor that was made up by fans to account for much, much faster travel times than the on-paper speeds of warp factor whatever. Specifically, strong single-point sources. If you're in a solar system and the primary gravitational influence is main star, that'll slow you down compared to interstellar space where the gravity of all the stars around you is more or less balanced, which would speed you up, and being in intergalactic space where there's hardly any gravity at all leaves you stuck at the rated speed for any given warp factor. It'd explain why having a full-time navigator was so important, to find how to thread between the stars to get the best "traction" and quickest travel over the "terrain" rather than just flying point-to-point, and also why warp-speed projectiles are almost never used; if you try to warp into a planet, you won't get a faster-than-light amount of kinetic energy, you'll slow to a crawl before impact.

So, as you get closer to a star or other large mass, warp speed becomes less and less effective, to the point where a ship can be at, what was it, TOS warp 9.8 (rated at 941c) and still barely be traveling at the speed of light (it'd also explain how Spock's precise thruster blast could make up the difference when the ship maxed out at 8.1 (531c) on the return trip, and also how they could be at warp factor anything and be in danger of not reaching escape velocity).

Wouldn't that tie into TMP, where they said they wouldn't do warp drive until after they left the solar system (alluding to a drag factor and other delightful effects of physics)? Then again, it's the same movie that has Sulu being ordered to take the ship going to warp all while within Earth's atmosphere and he merrily obeys... oops.

 

[Qonundrum]

Yeah, could be. But i was thinking more about the strange shapes they saw during the time warp.

A shared fever dream?

 

[David cgc]

Wouldn't that tie into TMP, where they said they wouldn't do warp drive until after they left the solar system (alluding to a drag factor and other delightful effects of physics)? Then again, it's the same movie that has Sulu being ordered to take the ship going to warp all while within Earth's atmosphere and he merrily obeys... oops.

I like to think that's just because they're new engines that haven't been run-in or calibrated yet so they'd want to avoid complicating factors like strong gravity wells as much as practical. Once they (well, Spock) had the engines properly tuned, they could go to warp straight from orbit without a hitch, just like normal.

 

[drt]

I like to think that's just because they're new engines that haven't been run-in or calibrated yet so they'd want to avoid complicating factors like strong gravity wells as much as practical. Once they (well, Spock) had the engines properly tuned, they could go to warp straight from orbit without a hitch, just like normal.

This is confirmed in the film. The closing warp out presumably takes place very near Earth, since they were in Earth orbit after V'ger moves along home and there doesn't seem to be any time wasted flying out of the solar system on impulse.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Bozeman had to correct course after the Amargosa star was destroyed, so gravity apparently does affect warp flight

This is a head scratcher, too.
Because even if a star explodes, the bulk of it’s mass should still be in the general vicinity, even if spread out a tiny bit more.
Nothing a few light years away would feel the difference.

 

[USS Artorius]

This is a head scratcher, too.
Because even if a star explodes, the bulk of it’s mass should still be in the general vicinity, even if spread out a tiny bit more.
Nothing a few light years away would feel the difference.

Not necessarily. It's not like we've ever seen any real supernovas less than several dozen lightyears from our solar system (probably further than that). There is no predicting how much the explosion would affect surrounding space. It would depend on the type of star, whether it was a natural death or in the case of the Bozeman, it was destroyed by some kind of missile by Soran to change the course of the Nexus. This could have affects in subspace or form anomalies that we have no idea exist as of the 21st century. Yes the matter would only be able to travel at light speed or slower but there have been many times in star trek when energy has travelled at warp speeds and even beyond warp 9. Case and point Voyager "Caretaker". In the 24th century we will have vastly more knowledge of supernovae than we do in 2023.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Was there ever an explanation for the strange visions, the crew experienced and how they were triggered?

Yeah. Someone watched the end sequence of Highlander too many times.

 

[Tango]

This is a head scratcher, too.
Because even if a star explodes, the bulk of it’s mass should still be in the general vicinity, even if spread out a tiny bit more.
Nothing a few light years away would feel the difference.

Not to mention changes in gravitational fields
travel only at the speed of light.