What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[drt]

I admire TMP more for what it's trying to be, rather than what it actually is. I like that it doesn't exactly fit with what came before or what comes after. It's a window into what Star Trek: Phase II might have looked like, so it's kind of worth it for me on that basis alone. It's a curio for sure, but it's the only time we get to see Roddenberry's idea of Star Trek unfiltered on a cinema screen.

For better or worse, in the whole of Star Trek I think there's nothing else quite like it.

I agree with you that it's not the best of them, but there's a lot to see in there that's never seen again.

I think Season 1 of TNG is probably a better window into Phase II, at least from a potential story perspective. Decker, Ilia, Xon and elder statesmen Kirk are all there, just with the serial numbers filed off.

I do 100% agree that TMP doesn’t really fit what came before or afterwards. It’s the closest Star Trek ever came to being “hard” science fiction. Aside from the basic TOS designs of Enterprise and Klingon ships, almost everything else feels like 70s futurist/NASA designs; and it’s apparent more effort was made to try and work out how things actually worked in universe.

 

[Citiprime]

There's a part of me that wishes there could be a redo of Star Trek: Enterprise or that it had happened a decade later closer to the streaming era.

I've come to really like the series we got, but I think there's a version of it that could have been a mix between Star Trek and The Expanse.

• Throw out all the Temporal Cold War stuff and instead focus on the divisions of a pre-Federation Earth and dive into the sort of interests we see in "Demons" pulling humanity in separate directions.
• Severely pull back the technology level of both humanity and the rest of the galaxy. Make starships of that era the equivalent of submarines in space with limited weapons, maybe not even artificial gravity, and travel itself a bit more dangerous.
• I used to think Scott Bakula was totally wrong for Archer when the series was airing. Especially in season 1, when the character is supposed to have an undercurrent of resentment towards the Vulcans, I just didn’t think it worked and Bakula didn’t look comfortable in the role. Watching it back now, he’s great once they found their lane for the show in seasons 3 and 4.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I like that it doesn't exactly fit with what came before or what comes after.

That was TMP's great failing--not looking or working like a natural progression from TOS. The film was not a reboot or alternate universe take on ST, but a continuation. Roddenberry, et al., failed to understand that, instead presenting something about as fascinating as a late night infomercial selling do-it-yourself pencil manufacturing machines. The life, inventiveness and heart of all that made TOS a global phenomenon was nowhere to be found in TMP, hence it being the deserved odd ST production out among the TOS/TAS/TOS-movie franchise.

Make starships of that era the equivalent of submarines in space with limited weapons, maybe not even artificial gravity, and travel itself a bit more dangerous.

I've heard ideas of this kind before, and always agreed with the creative choice; it would have sold the idea of a rough, less-than-comfortable period of space exploration, and moved its era of ships toward the kind Spock described in "Balance of Terror".

 

[Orphalesion]

There's a part of me that wishes there could be a redo of Star Trek: Enterprise or that it had happened a decade later closer to the streaming era.

I've come to really like the series we got, but I think there's a version of it that could have been a mix between Star Trek and The Expanse.

• Throw out all the Temporal Cold War stuff and instead focus on the divisions of a pre-Federation Earth and dive into the sort of interests we see in "Demons" pulling humanity in separate directions.
• Severely pull back the technology level of both humanity and the rest of the galaxy. Make starships of that era the equivalent of submarines in space with limited weapons, maybe not even artificial gravity, and travel itself a bit more dangerous.
• I used to think Scott Bakula was totally wrong for Archer when the series was airing. Especially in season 1, when the character is supposed to have an undercurrent of resentment towards the Vulcans, I just didn’t think it worked and Bakula didn’t look comfortable in the role. Watching it back now, he’s great once they found their lane for the show in seasons 3 and 4.

1) Agreed!
2) That would be very cool!Though I'd say there'd have to be at least some Artificial Gravity, both to keep production costs manageable and to explain why the characters aren't all suffering form atrophied muscles and osteoporosis.
3) Now that I've seen some episodes of Quantum Leap (still didn't like the show all that much) I'd say more like "Archer was all wrong for Scott Bakula". I now do think that Bakula could have been a good captain/lead if Archer hadn't been such a terrible character (similar to Kate Mulgrew in those episodes where Janeway is just badly written, but at least she had some episodes where she was allowed to be awesome)

 

[Lord Garth]

I would like Enterprise better if it were made today. For one thing, it wouldn't be the tail-end of the Berman Era, so it wouldn't feel stale. For another thing, all the Bushisms and early-2000s-ness in general wouldn't be part of the series. The show was a product of when it was made.

But the concept of showing how the Federation came to be is a sound one. It was a good idea made by the wrong people and at the wrong time. That's my take on it, at least.

 

[Paul755]

I don’t think I’d make very many changes to Enterprise. Biggest would be using the same story structure they did in S4. 2-3 episodes covering a single story followed by 1-2 bottle episodes.

 

[Lord Garth]

I imagine that today, with five Star Trek series on at the same time, they'd have actually gone ahead with the first season of ENT taking place pre-launch.

 

[Paul755]

Maybe not a whole season but I could see 2-3 episodes.

 

[Lord Garth]

Circling back to DSC Season 3 and something mentioned earlier upthread.

Su'Kal's scream. I understand that it's very Charlie X like and normally I'm all about TOS-like stuff. But time and place! Time and place! This wasn't the place, IMO. TOS-like or not, I think Su'Kal's scream causing The Burn is dumb. Not enough to ruin the season and not enough for me to think The Burn was a bad idea. I think it was a great to have The Burn, because things needed to be shaken up if Discovery was going into The Future. I just have to turn a blind eye to what caused it.

I understand what people say about it being TOS-like, but that doesn't automatically make it good. I like TOS as a show. Not as something to be deified.

I hope that whoever Saru left Su'Kal with is really looking after him. There's no way someone wouldn't want to try to kill him for causing The Burn.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That was stupid.

It should be open season on All Kelpians.

They are dangerous.

Baring more accidents, they could be weaponized to make more burns.

Kill squads should have been sent out.

And then all history of their culpability should have been expunged from the public record.

 

[ananta]

Star Trek IV is overrated. Very good but not as good as it’s reputation.

I love TVH, but the humour is overdone in places. Specifically, it often generates laughs by making the crew look like idiots. Sure, there would be a certain culture shock and many terms and expressions they wouldn’t be familiar with, but these are people who have managed to successfully communicate with all kinds of alien cultures without having so many silly mixups and faux pas. Thinking of Chekov’s interrogation as an example: “If you don’t tell the truth, you’re DONE!” “Great, so I can go?” Suddenly these characters can’t read social cues at all and seem inept and rather stupid. Too much of the humour comes from laughing at the characters.

 

[ananta]

Regarding the Burn in DSC—man, I can kind of see what they were going for…I think. But it was too “fantasy” in tone for a Sci-fi series. It just didnt sit right. I suppose, at the very least, nobody can claim they guessed the twist in advance.

If I was writing it and had to try make this plot twist work, I’d probably make it a whole lot darker. I’d have an entire race, maybe of telepaths or beings with paranormal powers, or who’d been experimenting with some temporal anomaly or something, be extinguished and wiped out, creating a psychic ripple across the galaxy; a kind of major “disturbance in the force.” The execution was poor but there’s the hint of a decent idea there.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I love TVH, but the humour is overdone in places. Specifically, it often generates laughs by making the crew look like idiots. Sure, there would be a certain culture shock and many terms and expressions they wouldn’t be familiar with, but these are people who have managed to successfully communicate with all kinds of alien cultures without having so many silly mixups and faux pas. Thinking of Chekov’s interrogation as an example: “If you don’t tell the truth, you’re DONE!” “Great, so I can go?” Suddenly these characters can’t read social cues at all and seem inept and rather stupid. Too much of the humour comes from laughing at the characters.

Maybe Chekov thought if he played dumb, they'd decide he didn't know anything and was just some nut. It was a bluff, a gambit, and Pavel just couldn't pull it off; he wasn't convincing enough or they were just paranoid.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Chekov couldn't really be expected to know that a Russian popping up out of nowhere, on an American aircraft carrier, in the middle of the Cold War no less, would likely be seen as a tad suspicious.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe he hoped to stall them, and escape somehow later. He was sure that someone would rescue him eventually, but he ran because until they did, he couldn't fight them by himself.

 

[Citiprime]

Regarding the Burn in DSC—man, I can kind of see what they were going for…I think. But it was too “fantasy” in tone for a Sci-fi series. It just didnt sit right. I suppose, at the very least, nobody can claim they guessed the twist in advance.

If I was writing it and had to try make this plot twist work, I’d probably make it a whole lot darker. I’d have an entire race, maybe of telepaths or beings with paranormal powers, or who’d been experimenting with some temporal anomaly or something, be extinguished and wiped out, creating a psychic ripple across the galaxy; a kind of major “disturbance in the force.” The execution was poor but there’s the hint of a decent idea there.

I think the reason they went with the choice they did was the writers saying: “well, how does this personally connect with our characters?” I’ve seen this argument with the Marvel shows on Disney+. People will say you can’t just have Mephisto show up in the finale, because it’s a character we haven’t been introduced to and how does that connect to the characters and story you’ve already presented?

I have the feeling the Discovery writers felt they had to give the explanation something that would connect with one of the main characters in some way, and they thought it would give a chance to explore another aspect of Saru.

But I don’t think it works at all, and I would have much preferred a more kind of WTF? ending introducing something new that you could build on then what we got.

 

[EnsignRedshirt]

Star Trek IV is overrated. Very good but not as good as it’s reputation.

It’s my least favorite of the original six films, and the one I’ve watched through the least.

 

[eschaton]

The problem with the Su'Kal thing is the galaxy is a gigantic place, and the season gave the impression that The Burn affected everywhere equally. But given the millions of planets across the galaxy, and billions of years of history, you would have thought all the dilithium had been burned out before.

Far from the first time Trek fucked up scale though.

 

[fireproof78]

I still like the Burn. Very TOS.

 

[Lord Garth]

Regarding the Burn in DSC—man, I can kind of see what they were going for…I think. But it was too “fantasy” in tone for a Sci-fi series. It just didnt sit right. I suppose, at the very least, nobody can claim they guessed the twist in advance.

If I was writing it and had to try make this plot twist work, I’d probably make it a whole lot darker. I’d have an entire race, maybe of telepaths or beings with paranormal powers, or who’d been experimenting with some temporal anomaly or something, be extinguished and wiped out, creating a psychic ripple across the galaxy; a kind of major “disturbance in the force.” The execution was poor but there’s the hint of a decent idea there.

Finally, a fellow DSC Fan to back me up!