Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 3x03 - "Seventeen Seconds"

[Tosk]

People change over time.

Absolutely true. Weird that Beverly doesn't seem to think that Jean-Luc could change.

I totally believe that, rightly or wrongly, she believed she was doing the right thing for Jack.

I agree. I don't think she did it out of malice.

Convenient or not, that is the case.

"That is the case" as in that's what she did, or "That is the case" meaning that's morally how these things should be? If it's the latter I disagree. A person has the right to know their child at least exists.

 

[thribs]

I didn’t recognise that was John Connor as the Founder at first. He also played one of Picard’s fake children in Generations

 

[Skipper]

Ethics question for everyone: Of course, the mother always has the ultimate decision of what to do for her baby (the body is hers).

But do you think the mother (from a moral / ethical point of view) always has the right to hide the birth of a child from her father? I mean not just in cases where the latter would be a bad influence on the child, but as a general rule.

 

[thribs]

Ethics question for everyone: Of course, the mother always has the ultimate decision of what to do for her baby (the body is hers).

But do you think the mother (from a moral / ethical point of view) always has the right to hide the birth of a child from her father? I mean not just in cases where the latter would be a bad influence on the child, but as a general rule.

While the baby is inside her, yes but once it’s out the father has the right to know. Unless he’s a asshole of course

 

[Weyoun 251]

Ethics question for everyone: Of course, the mother always has the ultimate decision of what to do for her baby (the body is hers).

But do you think the mother (from a moral / ethical point of view) always has the right to hide the birth of a child from her father? I mean not just in cases where the latter would be a bad influence on the child, but as a general rule.

Before getting into this then I think the word "always" might want dropping as there is not way there can be a one size fits all answer to this

 

[Admiral Picard]

It was even better than 3x01. Hard to believe that this season is that great so far. It feels like THE Star Trek and I love it. The conflict between Jean-Luc and Beverly was written and acted so well like they never did something else. Also the scenes between JL and Riker were really good. I think it is okay to have a conflict between these guys. They do have different agendas and both do it with their respective families old and new in their mind. Although it is tough to have JL leaving the bridge in front of the crew, but Riker has his point. I also really liked the Interaction between Worf and Raffaela. Dorn is really back in his best Worf mood. So wonderful!

 

[jaime]

Ethics question for everyone: Of course, the mother always has the ultimate decision of what to do for her baby (the body is hers).

But do you think the mother (from a moral / ethical point of view) always has the right to hide the birth of a child from her father? I mean not just in cases where the latter would be a bad influence on the child, but as a general rule.

Isn’t this somewhat covered in ‘Up The Long Ladder’ ?

 

[David cgc]

Sure, anything's possible. Although the Jem'Hadar were killed but not turned into jam (Jam'Hadar!) so it's hard to imagine that killing a Changeling, and it didn't die until well over ten hours after the crash. That's not to say it didn't happen that way, just presenting the facts we have from the episode.

Up until now (and I guess it can still be massaged as being true), I thought Changelings "raised" in the link were able to avoid or reduce the amount of time they had to spend as a liquid state. It would've been a lot more challenging for any long-term infiltrator if they had the same sixteen/ten split that Odo had to deal with. It could be explained a few ways; John Connor might've also left the Link when "newly formed" and was not as experienced and able to hold a shape for as long as the Female Changeling. Less likely, he might've been able to hold his shape as long as a full Founder and was just cutting it close, but if he could go days or weeks without regenerating, it would be weird if he was still walking around in public even when he was at the edge of exhaustion, but I guess that applies either way unless there was a lot of time-compression and he was imprisoned by Worf and Raffi for most of a day before he cracked.

It's a pity Patrick Stewart waited so long to make this series because Picard sounds so old and frail and he seems held more in affection like an elderly relative rather than held in authority like the old Picard.

I binged the first two seasons a few weeks ago for the first time, and one of my notes about the series premiere was that the abrupt way Picard fell totally into grandfatherly love with Dahj seemed a lot like he was falling for an elder-abuse scam. "You're the long-lost, never-before-mentioned daughter of my long-dead friend? I will do anything and everything for you!"

 

[JamesRye]

To be honest, I haven't really enjoyed any of nu-Trek (aside from the first half of DSC Season 1), but this third episode of Picard knocked it out of the park. It really didn't go in the direction that I expected and has subverted my expectations. Three pretty decent episodes in a row, I just hope they can stick the landing (the trauma of the Burn and Seasons 1 and 2 of Picard run deep and fill me with skepticism).

Even the VFX sequences were good in 17 seconds. Probably the best yet for the post Enterprise shows. Mostly because they move more like the older motion control photography, which gives them some 'weight' and they haven't tried to hide poor geometry and texturing with a ton of blue light - I'm looking at you DISCO season 1.

 

[ananta]

The visual effects were the definitely the best I’ve seen in some time. The lighting was also MUCH better in this episode, far less squinting to see who was doing what because the lights were so low!

 

[fireproof78]

the trauma of the Burn and Seasons 1 and 2 of Picard run deep and fill me with skepticism).

Have you thought about seeing a therapist for this trauma?

 

[Qonundrum]

It was a triumph.

Jaw-droppingly awesome, the scene was brilliantly done.

Some people on youtube were asking "Why not just move the ship up?" Because thrusters are too slow and impulse drive still takes a moment to engage. Never mind drag factors from the Plotdevice Nebula. (Okay, nebula are a staple, but it's done here than in NEM. IMHO.)

Wow. Just wow.

This is what S1 and 2 should’ve been like.

^^this

The lighting is often too low at times, the teal/orange palette is still clung to way too much, and modern day colloquialisms still feel way out of place (especially for the Trek universe, "tech", really...), but screw it - everything else makes up for it and that's what counts first and foremost.

 

[Farscape One]

Ethics question for everyone: Of course, the mother always has the ultimate decision of what to do for her baby (the body is hers).

But do you think the mother (from a moral / ethical point of view) always has the right to hide the birth of a child from her father? I mean not just in cases where the latter would be a bad influence on the child, but as a general rule.

No, she doesn't. Unless, as stated, the father is abusive, violent, dangerous, etc.

And honestly, the father should at least know she's pregnant. While the final decision to have the child is hers, he should at least know it exists and be asked his opinion on what to do next, because it wouldn't exist without him.

 

[thribs]

At least Marcus told Kirk about his kid and requested that he stay away. He was given a choice at least

 

[Blip]

No, she doesn't. Unless, as stated, the father is abusive, violent, dangerous, etc.

And honestly, the father should at least know she's pregnant. While the final decision to have the child is hers, he should at least know it exists and be asked his opinion on what to do next, because it wouldn't exist without him.

AFAIC the guy's opinion is rather immaterial unless he's carrying said offspring to term himself. Depositing some sperm certainly shouldn't be considered a guarantee of getting a say in anything unless conception was mutually agreed upon in advance, as it ain't his body that's doing the work for the next 9 months.

 

[Precious Tritium]

Noticed they reused a couple of shots from the Picard season 2 premiere in this episode. That’s how you know this thing is a callback to 90’s Trek.

Definitely a step up from the first two episodes which felt a little derivative at times. This is Frakes bringing his best work, both in front of and behind the camera. His conversation with Jack in the hallway was wonderful.

Speaking of Jack though, I’m still not convinced on the whole Picard’s secret son angle. Beverly’s excuse was basically that Picard was always going to be on some assignment or another for Starfleet and in constant danger, but he resigned his commission. He sat on his vineyard for like a decade or something and by all accounts lived a pretty peaceful life. Feel like that would have been a good time to tell him he had a son, maybe. I don’t know, maybe there’s more to this whole Jack storyline, but right now it just seems like a contrived way to make the Picard family name live on after they all got wiped out in Generations.

Some of the dialogue is still stilted, and it feels sweaty as hell sometimes, but the performances carried this episode. Overall, good.

More Vadic next time though, please.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Gaslighting and Toxic are words that get thrown around way too easily these days. I don't see how Picard and Crusher's relationship was ever depicted this way in TNG.

Ya gaslighting in terms of a relationship (which is where the term comes from) is an absolutely horrible form of domestic abuse.
It's miles away from anything we know about the Picard/Crusher relationship.

 

[Quinton]

Noticed they reused a couple of shots from the Picard season 2 premiere in this episode. That’s how you know this thing is a callback to 90’s Trek.

Definitely a step up from the first two episodes which felt a little derivative at times. This is Frakes bringing his best work, both in front of and behind the camera. His conversation with Jack in the hallway was wonderful.

Speaking of Jack though, I’m still not convinced on the whole Picard’s secret son angle. Beverly’s excuse was basically that Picard was always going to be on some assignment or another for Starfleet and in constant danger, but he resigned his commission. He sat on his vineyard for like a decade or something and by all accounts lived a pretty peaceful life. Feel like that would have been a good time to tell him he had a son, maybe. I don’t know, maybe there’s more to this whole Jack storyline, but right now it just seems like a contrived way to make the Picard family name live on after they all got wiped out in Generations.

Some of the dialogue is still stilted, and it feels sweaty as hell sometimes, but the performances carried this episode. Overall, good.

More Vadic next time though, please.

I don't doubt for a second that Jack is truly Jean-Luc's son, but at the same time, that weird hallucination he dealt with while near death felt about as bluntly 'you're going to see this from separate angles leading to a revelation of some kind' as the first time Picard remembered his mother in season 2. Something wild is going on there, so yeah, there's gotta be more to Jack in general.

(To be clear, I think it's related to the life form they're all inside re: the nebula, but the way he sees it etc, it feels... telling.)

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Ethics question for everyone: Of course, the mother always has the ultimate decision of what to do for her baby (the body is hers).

But do you think the mother (from a moral / ethical point of view) always has the right to hide the birth of a child from her father? I mean not just in cases where the latter would be a bad influence on the child, but as a general rule.

It is case by case. If it is to protect the child then fair enough.
My issue with what Beverly done is that she makes Picard out to be some adventuring death wish maniac and completely absolved herself of the fact she was a willing collaborator in said adventures.

 

[Blip]

adventuring death wish maniac

LMAO