Vulcan Emotions

[AmandaSmith]

So this is something I've wondered. If Vulcans have stronger emotions than human to the point that they need to suppress them, wouldn't Spock being half human have an easier time controlling his, not less? It's always implied the other way around. And if not, why?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

His Human half may have less capacity for developing coping mechanisms/self-control than his Vulcan half.

 

[NCC-73515]

Vulcans seem to have a more disciplined mind, or the ability to get very disciplined.

 

[Ronald Held]

The hybrid neurology might make it harder to master the Disciplines.

 

[matthunter]

Or possibly all Vulcan kids struggle to master their emotions, but THEIR dads don't tend to say "so human..." at every occurrence and thus reinforce their belief that they themselves are fundamentally flawed as a hybrid?

Sarek really fucked the kid up.

 

[Oddish]

Even when there are two human parents, the offspring can surprise you. I expect that with parents of different species, it's even more unpredictable.

Perhaps other Vulcan-Human hybrids might have stronger discipline and weaker emotions, allowing them to master their feelings easily.

 

[fireproof78]

So this is something I've wondered. If Vulcans have stronger emotions than human to the point that they need to suppress them, wouldn't Spock being half human have an easier time controlling his, not less? It's always implied the other way around. And if not, why?

It would depend greatly on the upbringing as well as the biology. One, the emotions might be less intense but Spock may also struggle with finding the control to master them due to the differences between the two. Two, Spock was shown to be constantly teased for his human side which may have had an impact on his own perceived need for overcompensating for his emotional control, i.e. when he tells Kirk "because she feels; I don't" it is a strong statement on his part of asserting his control in the moment.

The flip side could also be true; emotions run deep in the Vulcan race and can overwhelm even at the most basic of moments. Humans have the same weakness if not modeled emotional regulation at an early age, and how to communicate needs. So, Spock got told that his emotions were wrong by his dad, and his mom provide support the best she could, though trying to respect the Vulcan way. So Spock basically got told "all emotions are bad" and he had to beat them down in to submission.

His experience may not be typical of all Vulcan-Human hybrids.

 

[Dodd]

His Human half may have less capacity for developing coping mechanisms/self-control than his Vulcan half.

I agree

 

[Tallguy]

TOS went back and forth on this. I mean the plain conceit is that Spock has emotions because he's half human. From Where No Man Has Gone Before he says that he might know irritation because "...one of my ancestors married a human female." Any time Spock claims he is incapable of emotion we figure he's "denying his human half" and such.

Roddenberry writes that Spock fails Kolinahr because his human half had hidden itself with "human guile" and ambushed him when he sensed the . Again, he is struggling with his human half.

Even as late as The Voyage Home Amanda says that because he is her son, human, he will have emotions. The implication being that that is the only reason he has emotions.

But then we have later Trek (TNG onwards) that baldly states that Vulcans have emotions. As said above, strong ones. But it's OK because they have training. But it's not like Spock was Worf, exiled from his home and raised among humans. He's raised on Vulcan right along with all the other pointy eared kids.

What about Spock's genetics would make him less able to control his emotions than the other green blooded kids on his street? Even if it's as a consequence of his human make up, that implies that there is a physical reason that Vulcans can totally hide their feelings.

When the show started it and it was entirely biological it made a kind of sense. But as it went on and it became a cultural thing it made less and less.

 

[fireproof78]

When the show started it and it was entirely biological it made a kind of sense. But as it went on and it became a cultural thing it made less and less.

Interesting idea. It's almost like TOS treated logic as a inherited trait:
(From TOS All Our Yesterdays):
MCCOY: Are you trying to kill me, Spock? Is that what you really want? Think. What are you feeling? Rage? Jealousy? Have you ever had those feelings before?
SPOCK: This is impossible. Impossible. I am a Vulcan.
MCCOY: The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another five thousand years. Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now, this very moment?
SPOCK: My ancestors are barbarians. Warlike barbarians.
MCCOY: Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions. Spock, you're reverting into your ancestors five thousand years before you were born!

Except, Spock still displays emotion:
(From TOS The Savage Curtain)
SURAK: Live long and prosper, Spock. May you also, Captain Kirk.
SPOCK: It is not logical that you are Surak. There is no fact, extrapolation of fact or theory, which would make possible.
SURAK: Whatever I am, would it harm you to give response?
SPOCK: Live long and prosper, image of Surak, father of all we now hold true.
SURAK: The image of Surak read in your face what is in your mind, Spock.
SPOCK: As I turned and my eyes beheld you, I displayed emotion. I beg forgiveness.
SURAK: The cause was more than sufficient. Let us speak no further of it. In my time, we knew not of Earth men. I am pleased to see that we have differences. May we together become greater than the sum of both of us.

Now here it sounds a bit more cultural.

Later on, in the same episode:
SPOCK: You had no choice, Captain. You could not have stopped him.
KIRK: How can you ignore that?
SPOCK: A Vulcan would not cry out so.
KIRK: Whether he's a Vulcan or not, he's in agony.
SPOCK: I am not insensitive to it, Captain.

Again, an acknowledgement that he is feeling something for Surak.

And in Journey to Babel:
SPOCK: Mother, how can you have lived on Vulcan so long, married a Vulcan, raised a son on Vulcan, without understanding what it means to be a Vulcan?
AMANDA: If this is what it means, I don't want to know.
SPOCK: It means to adopt a philosophy, a way of life, which is logical and beneficial. We cannot disregard that philosophy merely for personal gain, no matter how important that gain might be.
AMANDA: Nothing is as important as your father's life.
SPOCK: Can you imagine what my father would say if I were to agree, if I were to give up command of this vessel, jeopardise hundreds of lives, risk interplanetary war, all for the life of one person?

Again, hints at cultural.

So, it appears that even TOS had elements of both.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Maybe some of it is related to Vulcan telepathy. If one telepathic nostril is stuffed up, so to speak, you have trouble inhaling logic and exhaling a controlled, measured response.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Or possibly all Vulcan kids struggle to master their emotions, but THEIR dads don't tend to say "so human..." at every occurrence and thus reinforce their belief that they themselves are fundamentally flawed as a hybrid?

Sarek really fucked the kid up.

It's ALL Sarek's fault. The 2009 movie spells it out.

To Child Spock: Marrying your Mother was logical.

To Adult Spock, immediately following the Vulcan genocide and the death of Amanda, when Spock is having a total fucking breakdown: I married her because I loved her.

If he said that to start with Spock wouldn't be a closeted emotional basket case! He could have been sooooo much happier for the past 25 or so years.

 

[Tallguy]

It's kind of boring that Spock is literally just like every other Vulcan and this "human half" thing is all just made up. But that's kind of where we ended up. It certainly blunts The Motion Picture considerably.

Of course it does make the Vulcans the worst racists in Star Trek. Do they have a "one drop rule"?

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

To Child Spock: Marrying your Mother was logical.

To Adult Spock, immediately following the Vulcan genocide and the death of Amanda, when Spock is having a total fucking breakdown: I married her because I loved her.

"It is logical to marry for love. If you and another harbor mutual affection, there is strength, support, and security to be found in such a match. Marry for any other reason and doubt and fear will plague you. "Am I good enough? Will it last? Why did he/she marry me?""

"Doubt is not exclusive to marriages of convenience, Father."

"No. It is not. However, you are more likely to find the answers you seek without having to ask. If one only observes."

 

[EmilyStarfleet98]

So is it possible that the writers of Star Trek have changed or altered the original reason for why Vulcans do not display emotons? In the Original series with Captain Kirk, it seemed almost as if Vulcans are incapable of emotions and thus Spock had to learn to control his emotions and hide them, but then later we see that is not the case.

 

[fireproof78]

So is it possible that the writers of Star Trek have changed or altered the original reason for why Vulcans do not display emotons? In the Original series with Captain Kirk, it seemed almost as if Vulcans are incapable of emotions and thus Spock had to learn to control his emotions and hide them, but then later we see that is not the case.

Except Nimoy himself stated that he always tried to play Spock as a person who had his emotions constantly in check, for fear of them running wild. He stated that a lot of times people get Vulcans wrong because they try to play them as devoid of emotion, rather than driven by logic to control their emotions.

 

[XCV330]

So is it possible that the writers of Star Trek have changed or altered the original reason for why Vulcans do not display emotons? In the Original series with Captain Kirk, it seemed almost as if Vulcans are incapable of emotions and thus Spock had to learn to control his emotions and hide them, but then later we see that is not the case.

See Amok Time. Vulcan strong emotions has always been in the show. It was never treated as a Spock-only thing, as far as I know.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I guess there's this perception that anything other than pure Vulcan would be different, and Spock is viewed in light of that assumption- through Human-colored lenses as it were.

 

[Tallguy]

See Amok Time. Vulcan strong emotions has always been in the show. It was never treated as a Spock-only thing, as far as I know.

Second season. First season Spock often mentioned how he was incapable of emotions. Like I said, TOS didn't really make up their minds. I'd probably pin at least some of that on Nimoy which certainly influenced the writers.

But again, if his "human half" is an issue it can't be because of his upbringing. He wasn't raised human. (And I can't imagine Sarek having an issue with Amanda's parenting.) It has to be an actual physiological issue.

It's not like we're talking about his Mom's Irish temper here.

 

[XCV330]

Second season. First season Spock often mentioned how he was incapable of emotions. Like I said, TOS didn't really make up their minds. I'd probably pin at least some of that on Nimoy which certainly influenced the writers.

But again, if his "human half" is an issue it can't be because of his upbringing. He wasn't raised human. (And I can't imagine Sarek having an issue with Amanda's parenting.) It has to be an actual physiological issue.

It's not like we're talking about his Mom's Irish temper here.

Cage Spock found singing plants humorous and shouted at inappropriate moments. I agree that they probably didn't have anything comprehensive worked out, at first. I'm no TOS expert though.