PIC S3 Ships & Tech

[Unimatrix Q]

Wonder why so many here have a problem with the F getting decommissioned in 2405. The NX-01 was only around for 10 years, the C for 11 and the D for 7.

 

[Markonian]

NX-01 was retired early for political reasons: keep the Earth ship safe that formed the Federation. (In the ENT novel A Choice of Futures, it was partly because of too severe damage to the superstructure).

The C and D were destroyed.
Whereas the A and F get decommissioned super ‘young’.

 

[fireproof78]

Wonder why so many here have a problem with the F getting decommissioned in 2405. The NX-01 was only around for 10 years, the C for 11 and the D for 7.

Because...reasons. It's bad when it happens unless it doesn't happen all the time then it's good. It's good when people declare it good.

Ships are subject to the political whims of the Federation; good, bad, or indifferent.

 

[Ronald Held]

I cannot see the D saucer being lifted off of the planet in one piece, due to the massive damage. If it was removed in pieces, unlikely to be rebut as a Galsxy class saucer.

 

[Deks]

NX-01 was retired early for political reasons: keep the Earth ship safe that formed the Federation. (In the ENT novel A Choice of Futures, it was partly because of too severe damage to the superstructure).

The C and D were destroyed.
Whereas the A and F get decommissioned super ‘young’.

Don't forget the E.
That was in service for what... 10 years?
If the F is being decomissioned in 2402 (and its been in service for 20 years)... that means the Enterprise-E was decomissioned in 2381 (which doesn't make too much of a sense because the Ent-E was still supposed to be around by 2383 (when SF encountered the Vau'Na'Kat weapon) I think... or it was decomissioned by then (when Picard made Admiral) and the F entered service.

It just seems nonsensical to decomission the E so early in its service record (at the very least I would have expected the E to last until the early 25 the century and then maybe gets replaced after being destroyed - or gets a design upgrade overall which turns it into the design of the F).

And then the F lasting only 20 years... sigh...

 

[Deks]

I cannot see the D saucer being lifted off of the planet in one piece, due to the massive damage. If it was removed in pieces, unlikely to be rebut as a Galsxy class saucer.

Tractor beams and antigrav containment fields with warp fields anyone?
Ds9 showed us tug ships.
Its more than doable to lift the saucer from the surface of Veridian III, warp it to the nearest repair drydock, then start beaming out the most damaged bits, convert them into energy, reassemble them into brand new ones in the matter stream and beam them back into place by adding a bit more energy or matter. Its literally 'dematerialize and rematerialize' job that a computer could do on its own.
Slap a secondary hull onto it and the ship is good to go.

Had the saucer had been vaporized, then yeah, I'd agree with you... but as it stands, there was limited reason to replace the D entirely.

At the very least, we could have been told on-screen the ship was repaired, renamed, put back into active service with another crew, and the Enterprise name went on to the Sovereign class we saw in the movies.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Thing is, we don't know WHEN the E-D saucer was rescued from Veridian III. Could have been several years, by which point Starfleet had moved on from the Galaxy-class and wanting to focus on the production of newer ships like the Sovereign (or perhaps even the Ross-class, given what we see in Picard S2 onwards). I could easily see people waiting until after the end of the Dominion War to mount a salvage operation.

I'm more convinced than ever that the reitrement of the Enterprise-F this year will end with a mention or even glimpse of the replacement - it's too much of a Chekov's Phaser NOT to do it.

Mark

 

[Macintosh]

Had the saucer been completely destroyed it would have been easier to swallow, like this though? Nope.
The Galaxy class was still a modern 24th century design, so if you ask me, removing the ENT-D from active service didn't make much sense with a saucer in the condition it was.

As for whether it would have been easier and more efficient to build a new new from scrarch... depends.
The saucer section is basically raw material... damaged bits are raw material too. Harvesting the most damaged bits and disassembling them to base elements and reconstructing them into new things would have taken LESS resources than building a new ship from scratch because you're actually working with pre-existing matter ... in this scenario you would only need to add a bit more fresh matter (or energy) to repair the overall damage.

Building a ship from raw materials also works with pre-existing matter

With transporters, replicators, tractor beams and computer automation, its almost dead simple to do.

Arguably speaking rebuilding the ENT-D may have taken less overall resources and time than building a Sovereign class from scratch would have.

When you have the ability to materialize things even in sections, its not difficult to imagine the process being done on damaged ships. Take for example crew quarters. If for example 50% of was damaged beyond repair, you'd beam those sections out, turn them into base matter/energy, add the missing amount and rematerialize the fully repaired crew quarters.

And yet we never see anyone doing this with transporters or replicators in the entire Trek canon. It's never even suggested. Why didn't Bajor ask the Federation to do this for Deep Space 9 to get rid of the awful old Cardassian mining station and turn it into a shiny new Bajoran-designed station? We never even see transporters being used for mining.

The TNG and DS9 Technical Manuals both state that replicators are only energy-efficient at small sizes. This is why industrial replicators are so rare and so prized. Replicating parts of starships at anything other than furniture scale is not going to be efficient or desirable in the 24th century.

With building a new ship from scratch, you need to add more matter or energy for the materialization process.

Why?

Then again, the Galaxy class has a bigger internal volume than the Sovereign class, so it may have taken similar amount of energy/matter to rebuild the ENT-D as it was to make the ENT-E.

That's the only reason I could see SF using behind not rebuilding the D... although in fairness, they could have still rebuilt it, changed the insignia and numbers and named it something else and recomissioning it into active service with another crew, while the Enterprise-E could have still been a Sovereign class and the name of the ship and crew transferred to that vessel.

Nah mate, that's crackers

 

[Ronald Held]

Might be more economical to build another ship, of the same or more modern class.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

ILM seemed to think so too, they even altered the six foot model's registry to "E" in preparation:

From MA:

"After shooting, the model for Generations had been modified to have the registry read "USS Enterprise NCC-1701-E". It befuddled Penny Juday, then archivist at Paramount Pictures, who had no explanation for this change as she uncrated the model for the TNG Season 2 DVD-special feature, "Inside the Starfleet Archives" on 19 October 2001. However, the change was done at ILM by Goodson prior to crating up the model after completion of Generations. He assumed that the new Enterprise might be a Galaxy-class ship as well and changed over the number to save whoever would do the special effects the trouble of having to change it over themselves."

 

[NCC-73515]

The TOS-esque phaser from the prop dept patch(?), and a BOBW log

TNG-VOY Hyposprays

Jack's box from Family

Combination of TOS and TFF/TUC phaser

The Eleos 12

Titan-A

New shuttle?

Shrike

A Titan diagram

And found by @mattman8907: Voyager-B

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

And, thus, the Pathfinder and Pioneer classes join the crossover fleet from STO...*grin*.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

The shuttle appears to be the same type from 201, that delivers Picard to the Stargazer; it’s basically the same model from “Insurrection” with a couple of tweaks, starting with less Sovreigney nacelles.

This “refit” dialog is sure to drive us so nuts I wonder if Matalas is doing it on purpose. I feel that ultimately it’ll be remembered as a huge misunderstanding in every sense, and hopefully only rile up us tech-obsessed types…

Mark

 

[Spike730]

There's also a model of a three-nacelled Constitution (Federation-class dreadnaught?) at the bar.

 

[Mike McDevitt]

The shuttle appears to be the same type from 201, that delivers Picard to the Stargazer; it’s basically the same model from “Insurrection” with a couple of tweaks, starting with less Sovreigney nacelles.

This “refit” dialog is sure to drive us so nuts I wonder if Matalas is doing it on purpose. I feel that ultimately it’ll be remembered as a huge misunderstanding in every sense, and hopefully only rile up us tech-obsessed types…

Mark

Are they talking about upcycling? No more fleet museums? The Luna class Titan was ground up into fish paste and extruded through a new starship printer but they also keep the old playlists?

 

[blssdwlf]

At least in TMP the dialogue said the Enterprise was a redesign and refit.
What's going on with the blue glowing sections on the Titan's nacelles? The screenshots look like a texture map that didn't get applied all the way.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

The blue glowing part is animated now, suggesting that warp plasma is coursing through them.

 

[jackoverfull]

So the Enterprise-A was never destroyed! I want to see it back in action someday.
Voyager-B?! Just as we were talking about short-lived starships…

 

[Dukhat]

At least they’re not using the Pathfinder class for the Voyager-A in PRO. But showing that there’s already a B only 20 years after PRO means that yet again a brand-new ship will only last a short period of time.

Unless of course if PRO is inconsistent with PIC, which it already shows signs of being, just like all the other shows.

Also…is Bill Krause the only ship designer on that show with any imagination? They use old John Eaves designs, designs from STO, but nothing actually original except for his Shangri-La class which they change to the Connie 3 class.

 

[jackoverfull]

Unless of course if PRO is inconsistent with PIC, which it already shows signs of being, just like all the other shows.

How so?

Also…is Bill Krause the only ship designer on that show with any imagination? They use old John Eaves designs, designs from STO, but nothing actually original except for his Shangri-La class which they change to the Connie 3 class.

Budget: new designs cost way more than repurposing existing ones.