Spoilers Starfleet needs to revise its policies on "Augments"

[UssGlenn]

No, but this topic is based on the Trek fictional universe, not the Gattaca one

Just because something happens in a different movie doesn't mean the same thing can't happen logically in another. People whose parents can't afford genetic augmentation becoming second class citizens is almost certainly what would happen in the real world if we ever perfect that technology, regardless of laws against that kind of discrimination, and it's certainly one of the things the trek universe wants to prevent, even if Khan gets all the headlines.

 

[Kor]

Just because something happens in a different movie doesn't mean the same thing can't happen logically in another. People whose parents can't afford genetic augmentation becoming second class citizens is almost certainly what would happen in the real world if we ever perfect that technology, regardless of laws against that kind of discrimination, and it's certainly one of the things the trek universe wants to prevent, even if Khan gets all the headlines.

Ah, but in Trek's post-scarcity economy in which money may or may not exist, would such genetic augmentation really be off-limits to anyone? I mean, if it was something practiced openly and not clandestinely to get around bans.

Kor

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Influence, rank, social status, favors, etc may be the new money.

 

[UssGlenn]

Ah, but in Trek's post-scarcity economy in which money may or may not exist, would such genetic augmentation really be off-limits to anyone? I mean, if it was something practiced openly and not clandestinely to get around bans.

Kor

Even if it's freely available, not everyone will want to do it for a variety of reasons, but would still feel pressured to have it done to their kids to make sure they keep up. That leads to a genetic arms race.

 

[Oddish]

Genetic augmentation should remain banned or tightly restricted, except to correct congenital issues. But existing augments should be considered on a case by case basis.

 

[valkyrie013]

Plenty of examples of where genetic engineering could lead.
One is Gundam Seed, It gets to the point where most "Coordinators" move to space colonies, and to where "Normal" people do racist things, eventually leading to an all out war between "Earth" and the "space colonies"
But also read plenty of books where it helps, even to the point of extending life to functional immortality.

 

[Unicron]

The Heavy Gear RPG series has Earth's forces using the GRELs (Genetically Recombined Experimental Legionnaires) who were developed from eugenics programs during WW3. The GRELs serve as shock troops and have a number of different models, with several designed for specific roles within the Terran military. Maxwell series GRELs act as gunners, for example, while Isaacs serve as field technicians and Minervas are pilots. While most of the GREL subtypes are competent within their respective niches, their status as "proper" people isn't universally respected by either the Terran Colonial Expedition Force or the inhabitants of the Terra Nova system. Some regard the GRELs as either inherently inferior or a potential threat because they might replace traditional soldiers, while others are more enlightened and tend to judge them as they would any normal individual on their own merits.

The New Earth Commonwealth has been secretly working on a next-generation program for SLEDGE soldiers, who ideally would be more refined than the standard types of GRELs and would also have the advantage of appearing like normal humans without some of the oddball quirks that are known to affect each GREL type. Isaac type GRELs are very good at their role in repair and maintenance, but many of them develop an uncontrollable urge to tinker with any nearby technology if they have nothing to do. But presently the SLEDGE project is still only in prototype form and highly classified.

 

[Nyotarules]

Plenty of examples of where genetic engineering could lead.
One is Gundam Seed, It gets to the point where most "Coordinators" move to space colonies, and to where "Normal" people do racist things, eventually leading to an all out war between "Earth" and the "space colonies"
But also read plenty of books where it helps, even to the point of extending life to functional immortality.

All fictional, based on present real life fears and 1960's version of genetics. It is still strange in the Trek universe to punish children for the actions of their parents, (We don't want you in Starfleet, cos you might be the next KHANNNNNN! ) and it only became a Trek issue under DS9 and was retconned from there in ENT and SNW.
Real history, genocidal maniacs did not need augmentation to be their own version of Khan.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

we in the real world do not hold a whole nation or ethnic group responsible for the actions of the past.

But again, there are no nations or ethnic groups in existence today which were deliberately created through technological means. That's the kicker. THAT'S the reason Augments are illegal - they only exist because they were specifically MADE to exist. That reasoning does not apply to our world, because we have no groups like that.

True, augmented individuals like Bashir and the Jack Pack can't help being who they are - they didn't ask to be made. But somebody DID make them. And of course the Federation is willing to make exceptions. Bashir was allowed to continue in Starfleet, and Dal R'El was allowed to apply to the Academy. So clearly the Federation is not the unthinking monster it is being accused of being.

The Federation isn't banning the people, just the process. Does that make it right? Perhaps not. But it does make it understandable.

 

[fireproof78]

The Heavy Gear RPG series has Earth's forces using the GRELs (Genetically Recombined Experimental Legionnaires) who were developed from eugenics programs during WW3. The GRELs serve as shock troops and have a number of different models, with several designed for specific roles within the Terran military. Maxwell series GRELs act as gunners, for example, while Isaacs serve as field technicians and Minervas are pilots. While most of the GREL subtypes are competent within their respective niches, their status as "proper" people isn't universally respected by either the Terran Colonial Expedition Force or the inhabitants of the Terra Nova system. Some regard the GRELs as either inherently inferior or a potential threat because they might replace traditional soldiers, while others are more enlightened and tend to judge them as they would any normal individual on their own merits.

The New Earth Commonwealth has been secretly working on a next-generation program for SLEDGE soldiers, who ideally would be more refined than the standard types of GRELs and would also have the advantage of appearing like normal humans without some of the oddball quirks that are known to affect each GREL type. Isaac type GRELs are very good at their role in repair and maintenance, but many of them develop an uncontrollable urge to tinker with any nearby technology if they have nothing to do. But presently the SLEDGE project is still only in prototype form and highly classified.

Sequest DSV had the "Genetically Engineered Lifeforms" (GELFs) who were treated as nonhumans and second class citizens until it was discovered that their offspring could still end up as human.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sequest DSV had the "Genetically Engineered Lifeforms" (GELFs) who were treated as nonhumans and second class citizens until it was discovered that their offspring could still end up as human.

Really? How's that work? Would not genetic modifications be passed on to offspring?

Then again, this IS SeaQuest we're talking about.

 

[fireproof78]

Really? How's that work? Would not genetic modifications be passed on to offspring?

Then again, this IS SeaQuest we're talking about.

I guess because the base genetic code was human, so in the great genetic lottery all the human things lined up.

But, yeah, SeaQuest with Atlantis and psychic phenomena and aliens.

 

[MarkusTay]

Only read through the first page, so forgive me for being (possibly) redundant...

The Warhammer 40K Universe is to SW what the mirror-universe is to ST. And they lifted a LOT of their anti-AI/tech/mech stuff right from Dune (right down to the 'God emperor'). It's actually a fairly common running-theme, and as others have said, its the easiest way to hand-wave post-humanism out of a setting (even though Dune and so many others have tons of it anyway). Even Asimov's full universe - which included both the Robot and Foundation series (which 'bookends' his Empire stuff) - was anti-AI, in the form of robots, which were 'phased out' because they turned humans into useless meat-bags.

Think about the Terminator series. Or the computer HAL 9000 from 2001: A space Odyssey. Or the movies The Forbin Project or Wargames. Hell, think about P.A.M. from Falllout 4, who basically started WW3 on a whim (P.A.M. stands for 'Predictive analytical machine', and she falsely claimed the Chinese were about to attack the U.S.). Heck, there's even been several TOS episodes and movie about 'tech run amok', Its so common its beyond being 'a Trope' at this point. Its just an accepted 'future fact'. LOL

And in Star Trek, we have a clear example of 'technology run amok', in the form of augments (and later, 'synths'). The same thing applies to augments as applies to other technology, like AI, and we have to also apply the paradigm of "once you make exceptions to a rule, people (lawyers) will find a loophole to claim that exception". The ONLY way to make sure Kahn and his ilk does not happen again is to make it ALL illegal. That's just how these things work when it comes to the law. Its why our own laws are so messed up - if its not 'all or nothing', the law actually becomes useless.

 

[Tuskin38]

think about P.A.M. from Falllout 4, who basically started WW3 on a whim

Nothing in Fallout 4 says it was her.

For the rest of your post, the synth ban was lifted at the end of Picard Season 1.