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Gul Sengosts
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Riker should have kept his Angel One outfit and worn it all the time
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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Didn't they put Neelix in a cat suit one time?
I don't know why, but for some reason this post makes me think of dialogue from DS9's worst episode, "PROFIT AND LACE".
Nilva: "Doesn't wearing all those clothes make you feel like a deviant?"
Quark as 'Lumba': "Not really. And I'll tell you why. Because under all these clothes, I know I'm totally naked."
I will say this for ENT... there were more half clothed men shown, particularly Archer and Trip, in those 4 years than all of TNG, DS9, and VGR combined. At least Berman was being more equal about objectifying by that time.
B'Elanna did most of her potential development in one episode, when she leaped from "unstable savage with an attitude problem" to "chief engineer of Voyager and trusted member of the team". After that, she just seemed to be on a treadmill: in "Faces", she was struggling to accept her Klingon side. In "Lineage", she was still embroiled in the same struggle. Imagine if they'd NOT made her chief engineer right away, but she had to earn the post, most notably by learning to work as part of the team and control her temper. She could have been another Kira.
But at least B'Elanna got one episode of development. Harry didn't even get that... the only episode where they even tried to develop him was "Nightingale", and that was too little too late.
Agreed. That bit of stupidity was one of the two big immersion breakers on ENT, the other being them using the same weapons as they had in the 24th century.
Hard to believe it took a character written as a puffed up, micromanaging, hardcase jerk to fix that problem.
It would have at least made the idiotic decision to keep him at ensign for seven years a little less obvious.
Catsuit Kim... somebody would have seen that as the purrrrfect solution.
Not saying that practice wasn't bad.
But...in TOS all female officers aboard the Enterprise wore micro-skirts that barely covered their bottoms(especially when sitting)
That wasn't very professional either.
Especially if the suit had ears and a tail.
Really.
TOS: Miniskirts.
Very beginning of TNG: Miniskirts
Early TNG: Catsuits.
Late TNG: Standard uniform.
DS9: Standard uniform.
Early VOY: Standard uniform*.
Late VOY: Catsuits.
ENT: Catsuits.
With late TNG, DS9, and early VOY, a high water mark was reached. And then, they hit reverse.
*Or something tasteful and modest, in Kes's case.
Even in the Kelvin Timeline films set during the TOS Era female officers wore sleeveless skirt uniforms, and all three of those movies were produced after the end of the Berman period.
TOS treatment of women overal was unquestionably *way* worse than the spin-offs. It's just unfortunate that the spin-offs didn't fully fix the issue instead of only kinda sorta fixing it for most characters, eventually, with no small amount of backsliding along the way.
The one aspect of the uniforms I did not care for in the Kelvin films. Though they did have long sleeve variants, as Beyond was slightly better.
Still annoying.
You can make a case VOY characters grew more than TNG’s and were more interesting FROM THE GET-go. Years ago I did a one to one with each comparable crew member and VOY wins for more interesting ppl to begin with and growth/change.
Of course TNG was saddled with the original GR no-conflict, the crew is one character idea..
B’ellana continually mellowed, I think and she and Tom grew into their relationship and marriage. Tom from jerk to good man. Chuckles went from Maquis to liason/#1 to normal Starfleet #1. Seven and Doc, huge change, obviously. Harry’s non change is itself a thing. Irony? Wrath towards Wang? Neelix became somewhat less annoying and a really good guy. Certainly less jealous. Tuvok, alas, such a waste. He’s such a good guy, a normal Vulcan who is an admirable family man. Janeway’s trusted old friend to the guy who fires phasers. Oh well.
On TNG, Picard mellowed a bit. Deanna got her driver’s license. Worf definitely became more well-rounded. Beverly not so much. At all. Other than having sex with a candle ghost. That was cool.
YMMV
Of course TNG was saddled with the original GR no-conflict, the crew is one character idea..
B’ellana continually mellowed, I think and she and Tom grew into their relationship and marriage. Tom from jerk to good man. Chuckles went from Maquis to liason/#1 to normal Starfleet #1. Seven and Doc, huge change, obviously. Harry’s non change is itself a thing. Irony? Wrath towards Wang? Neelix became somewhat less annoying and a really good guy. Certainly less jealous. Tuvok, alas, such a waste. He’s such a good guy, a normal Vulcan who is an admirable family man. Janeway’s trusted old friend to the guy who fires phasers. Oh well.
On TNG, Picard mellowed a bit. Deanna got her driver’s license. Worf definitely became more well-rounded. Beverly not so much. At all. Other than having sex with a candle ghost. That was cool.
YMMV
Definitely. It is one of the reasons why I personally don't like TOS. Though as you say the later shows never "fixed" that problem. TNG really wasn't all that much better, once Tasha left (who was only there in the first place because Roddenberry thought Vasquez from Aliens was hot) the remaining female characters that stayed for the rest of the show were both gentle caregivers, and one of them didn't even get to wear a uniform and had to wear gigantic 80s wigs that were just as silly as the towering bouffants in TOS.
And yeah in all the other shows they eventually forced a catsuit on somebody.
At the very least NuTrek finally stopped that practice.
Which really sucks because some episodes (like Data's Day) show that there clearly were some interesting sides to Beverly's character, they just refused to capitalize on those.
Season 3 of Discovery is finally when the show gets good.
I remember sighing in relief in the first 5 minutes of the first episode. It finally found a point of view. It had a characterization of Burnham besides "whatever the plot dictates." And was free of the shackles of canon.
I remember sighing in relief in the first 5 minutes of the first episode. It finally found a point of view. It had a characterization of Burnham besides "whatever the plot dictates." And was free of the shackles of canon.
DSC Season 4 was so much more satisfying than PIC Season 2. It had its own problems but if you'd asked me just a year ago if I'd strongly prefer DSC's new season over a PIC season involving the 2020s and references to Sanctuary Districts I'd have scoffed and pretty obnoxiously, but nope - Burnham and Species 10-C delivered. Picard didn't.
Although never seen on main characters, they did have women with sleeves and in pants on the Enterprise in all 3 movies.
Seven's portrayal was good and Stardust City Rag wasn't bad. But yeah I hate that show. Plus...I haven't seen Season 2, and never will, but...what was even the point of Elnor's character? He kinda just existed and looked cool.
Yeah Seven (and to a certain extent Raffi) was the only good thing. Season 2 wasted Q and Guinan! Two of my favorite TNG characters.
And even Adam Soong was kind of a wasted character. The first Soong that, well, sucked.
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