What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Sim]

Not sure if that's controversial here, but I actually like most of the new series that usually get quite some hate, like Picard, Lower Decks and Prodigy.

It seems to me that especially on Picard and Lower Decks, the opinions are very controversial ... and while I do see the flaws in Picard when it comes to writing (they especially totally messed up the season arc in season 2, imo), I overall enjoy the show, because there are many great character moments that make up for it. Even back in the days of TNG and especially DS9, I enjoyed the worse episodes, as long as they still had good character moments, and it's no different for me in Picard.

As for Lower Decks, I think it's the one new show that feels like "true" Trek. I don't mind that it requires self-irony as a fan and I don't feel it's insulting my "fan honor". On the contrary, it's a really loving self-parody, imo. I also enjoy that it's the only Trek show my older daughter likes watching with me.

As for "insulting fan honor", I get that vibe vom "The Orville". Perhaps that's controversial among many fans, too: I really can't stand that show. It's a completely unoriginal rip-off that shamelessly steals from 90s Trek without adding even the slightest bit originality with it, and then covers all of that in toilet humor. I hate it.

 

[Tallguy]

Is Lower Decks hated? I thought it was rather beloved and I was late to the party. I cannot explain why I now love LD. There's apparently a fine line between "fan service" and "you get me!" And LD stands on it on tip toe while taking Romulan ale shooters.

 

[Sim]

Is Lower Decks hated? I thought it was rather beloved and I was late to the party. I cannot explain why I now love LD. There's apparently a fine line between "fan service" and "you get me!" And LD stands on it on tip toe while taking Romulan ale shooters.

I haven't really spent much time discussing online in the past years, so maybe LD is indeed beloved by most people ... just a few random opinions I read gave me the impression that might not be the case. So if most people love it ... sorry for being off topic.

 

[Sim]

Oh, another thing that might be controversial:

I actually like ENT, to the most part, and feel it's better than VOY. Not sure if that qualifies.

 

[Oddish]

actually like ENT, to the most part, and feel it's better than VOY. Not sure if that qualifies.

It would have been years ago, I think. Less so now. Overall, I think that Enterprise has aged better than Voyager has.

 

[Qonundrum]

Unpopular opinion:
"Insurrection" would be an almost perfect movie, if the Ba'ku were more convincing.

Of the movie's many flaws, taking a turn that evokes echoes of that phrase, "JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!" is arguably the worst.

It is essentially a smarter version of the original "Avatar".

Not that it would take much. Then again, who was the target audience, noting reviews at the time praised the shiny new 3D f/x, but (not wrongly) complained how the characters and plot were as 1D and oversimplified as anything could possibly get?

Imagine the Ba'ku being these blue, cat-like beings, one with the nature, and the entire planet being that underwater-like magical forest, lush, blooming, mysterious, black-light poster environment. Suddenly all the characters' actions make sense.

Apart from So'na being their kids bullied off the planet by the Ba'ku in the first place.

The movie's main message - "hardship for the many, to protect the life of the few" seems rightful, if "the few" are such a unique, mysterious, exemplary minority worth protecting, and the whole planet the equivalent of a majestic national park. Hell, Avatar 2 straight up steals INS McGuffin!

But alas, instead the Ba'ku are just some boring humans living in a hippie village on some hills, and the whole movie's allegory comes crashing and burning down...

If not "JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!", then it's obviously got to be "MAURY! MAURY! MAURY!"

The movie had other issues and inconsistencies dragging it down, but the allegedly epic moment of " *gasp* the sona and baku are the same species!" was the definitive moment...

 

[cooleddie74]

PRO is currently my second-favorite of all the new Trek series, behind only SNW. The show delivers week after week and is the most consistently solid of the streaming shows behind just SNW. "Nickelodeon? Oh, no. That's not a good sign."

Boy, was I wrong.

 

[Qonundrum]

Not sure if that's controversial here, but I actually like most of the new series that usually get quite some hate, like Picard, Lower Decks and Prodigy.

It seems to me that especially on Picard and Lower Decks, the opinions are very controversial ... and while I do see the flaws in Picard when it comes to writing (they especially totally messed up the season arc in season 2, imo), I overall enjoy the show, because there are many great character moments that make up for it. Even back in the days of TNG and especially DS9, I enjoyed the worse episodes, as long as they still had good character moments, and it's no different for me in Picard.

Plenty of shows have plot quibbles; characters, philosophical attributes, tone, ensuring audiences keep suspension of disbelief going, and other aspects make up for it. It's never a 100% thing... and to be a fly on the wall in writers' rooms while making the stories and storyboarding arcs and all - noting deadlines, rewrites, and other issues make the job more stressful than many might give it credit for. Not to mention audience reactions, of course.

As for Lower Decks, I think it's the one new show that feels like "true" Trek. I don't mind that it requires self-irony as a fan and I don't feel it's insulting my "fan honor". On the contrary, it's a really loving self-parody, imo. I also enjoy that it's the only Trek show my older daughter likes watching with me.

As for "insulting fan honor", I get that vibe vom "The Orville". Perhaps that's controversial among many fans, too: I really can't stand that show. It's a completely unoriginal rip-off that shamelessly steals from 90s Trek without adding even the slightest bit originality with it, and then covers all of that in toilet humor. I hate it.

IMHO, LD stands out the best when it comes to parody that also explores new ideas. LD is unique and refreshing...

YMMV, but I used to drool incessantly over "The Orville". 90s Trek people are on the writing and production team... I was late to season 1, balking at first due to perception of "Family guy toilet humor in space" - which it isn't. It does do some adult humor but it's nowhere near the excesses of FG, and I was impressed. It did take a lot from Trek, but there were innovations and new takes on ideas ("Pria" and "Krill" are two of many that comes to mind, even if the latter got too silly at times (not enough to take me out of the episode, though - YMMV), and "Majority Rule" blended TOS' budget saving parallel Earth trope with "Sliders" and the result was amazingly robust) and there were surprisingly few times where I rolled my eyes and went "Oh, trek episode ripoff" (a couple did, but YMMV as to where influence/inspiration ends and ripoff begins.) Season 1 was a witty parody with serious moments, amazingly daring enough to not shy away from controversial ideas, though the episode with "city inside of asteroid" was too brazenly 'For the world is hollow and i touched the sky' - for which the few tweaks to make for "more natural, less theater plotting" not really making it feel like its own thing. The 60s original, televised theater approach and all, just can't be bettered no matter how much f/x money and how many bloodpacks splatter on screen. Season 2 got a little more serious, but the comedy was still excellent. It did right what TNG failed at with Data... (then came "Identity", a game changer in both terrifyingly great AND awful ways but I won't digress.) It largely remained good and kept me despite the rushed nature of some episodes, and it's the rushed feel that was a disappointment... Then came season 3, and while I don't use the words often, "Po-faced" and "hubris" came quickly to mind as the combination of all the show's elements is what made it great. The seriousness felt artificial, compounded by plotting that doesn't match up. The wide range of clips shown on youtube of season 3 were enough to put me off; it truly did become a soulless pastiche of TNG, though looking back the issues did seem to start during season 2's second half. Is it any wonder that season 4 is still in limbo, a la "Doctor Who" circa early-1990 with no official notice mentioned? (Though I'd put season 26 of DW over season 3 of Orville. Season 24, too...)

 

[Qonundrum]

PRO is currently my second-favorite of all the new Trek series, behind only SNW. The show delivers week after week and is the most consistently solid of the streaming shows behind just SNW. "Nickelodeon? Oh, no. That's not a good sign."

Boy, was I wrong.

I saw a few clips. I have to remember it's for Nickelodeon's target audience, but I may have had a similar expectation for it - but the clips readily prove otherwise. It's really nicely done for its target audience, while being "accessible" for older viewers (e.g. parents).

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The revamped Starfleet uniforms are a really nice touch too.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Die Hard and Commando might actually make a decent double feature...

Both movies had the same screenwriter, Steven E. de Souza.

There's a persistent (but false) rumor that Die Hard was originally intended to be a sequel to Commando starring Schwarzenegger, but de Souza denies this. However, the confusion may stem from the fact that the actual scripted plot for the sequel to Commando does feature some significant similarities with Die Hard:

"So for Commando 2, we figured that Arnold, after blowing up half of Los Angeles, achieves some notoriety, retires from the army and, by the time the sequel occurs, is running a security firm. The plot would have seen him hired by a big corporation to oversee their security to protect their executives from being kidnapped, to stop people breaking into their building and to make sure their computers are secure. So he sets it up and hires the most dangerous people to be guards in the building and then lo and behold - he discovers the people he's working for are in the illegal arms business and the big corporation is simply a front. The end of the movie would see Jenny and Cindy, who is now a lawyer, trapped in the building and Arnold now has to defeat all the people he hired - all the meanest, toughest guards - as well as the security systems, the guard dogs, everything! So now, the awareness of Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to break into a building got conflated with Bruce Willis being trapped in a building. If there's something out there that resembles what Commando 2 was meant to be, it would probably be the recent Stallone/Schwarzenegger movie Escape Plan."

https://movieweb.com/die-hard-not-based-on-commando-2-script/

Since we're doing Die Hard trivia, did you know that Die Hard is both an adaptation from Roderick Thorpe's novel Nothing Lasts Forever, and a sort of sequel to the film The Detective, starring Frank Sinatra as John McClane? Fox was contractually obligated to give Sinatra the first chance at playing the role in Die Hard, which he thankfully turned down because he was "too old" to play the part.

A few years ago, if you told me I'd be into a cartoon aimed at kids and that it would make me go all-in for a Janeway Spin-Off, I'd have asked what the Hell kind of drugs you were on.

Jane's Addiction?

 

[Paul755]

Star Trek: Prodigy has made me in favor of a Star Trek: Janeway series.

A few years ago, if you told me I'd be into a cartoon aimed at kids and that it would make me go all-in for a Janeway Spin-Off, I'd have asked what the Hell kind of drugs you were on.

I dunno both a Janeway and/or a Seven of Nine series feel like the “Captain Sulu” series. Sure, die hards like us here would would watch but beyond that…

having those characters part of a larger ensemble in a series set in the Trek universe is one thing. But as the main character and focus of the show ala Picard…eh…

and don’t kid yourself, they know die hards will watch pretty much anything Trek. It’s all about getting those other viewers. If they made stuff just for the die hards maybe they wouldn’t have done visual reboots in Disco and SNW.

And just so it doesn’t seem like I’m dumping on Voyager characters, the same is true for most every Star Trek character. Star Trek: Riker, Star Trek: Kira or Star Trek: Archer would be DOA too.

Oh, another thing that might be controversial:

I actually like ENT, to the most part, and feel it's better than VOY. Not sure if that qualifies.

I agree, give me Enterprise…even the rough first season over Voyager. ENT’s highs are higher and the lows are about the same.

 

[Lord Garth]

and don’t kid yourself, they know die hards will watch pretty much anything Trek. It’s all about getting those other viewers.

I keep forgetting about that. I dropped three Star Trek shows during their run (VOY, ENT, LD). "If I don't like a show or lose interest, I stop watching it!" I have to remember other people here don't think like me.

 

[Tallguy]

I keep forgetting about that. I dropped three Star Trek shows during their run (VOY, ENT, LD). "If I don't like a show or lose interest, I stop watching it!" I have to remember other people here don't think like me.

I've never finished a Star Trek show during it's original run. (There were extenuating circumstances during TNG.)

 

[Oddish]

PRO is currently my second-favorite of all the new Trek series, behind only SNW. The show delivers week after week and is the most consistently solid of the streaming shows behind just SNW. "Nickelodeon? Oh, no. That's not a good sign."

Boy, was I wrong.

I think Prodigy has exceeded a lot of people's expectations.

 

[fireproof78]

The best Star Trek show since 2001 is easily Star Trek: Prodigy, a show aimed at children.

Someone think of the children!

 

[ananta]

You are wrong once again, my friend.

TMP is the worst Star Trek movie released.

By a healthy margin, too.

The sheer…controversy!!

You carbon based units are too much!

 

[Lord Garth]

Back-tracking to VOY, for a moment... According to Business Insider in 2017, a lot of the most watched and re-watched episodes came from Voyager.

Most Watched Episodes of 'Star Trek' on Netflix (businessinsider.com)

Whatever things were back in the '90s, this is what it was a lot more recently. So it doesn't surprise me that we've seen Seven in Picard, Janeway in Prodigy, and that Picard has made a lot of use of the Borg. So I do think a Seven or Janeway spin-off is more plausible than you might think.

If you're going to have five Star Trek series, they can't all be Strange New Worlds.

 

[Oddish]

You carbon based units are too much!

I thought we were ugly bags of mostly water.

 

[cooleddie74]

Wait, we're a savage child race.

 

[Tallguy]

We're on a thousand planets and spreading out. We cross fantastic distances and everything's alive. Life everywhere. We estimate there are millions of planets with intelligent life. We haven't begun to map them.