Maybe because during the late 60's the US military was "exploring" Viet Nam...
Is Starfleet Military?
- Thread starter Prometheus59650
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Maybe because during the late 60's the US military was "exploring" Viet Nam...
Look I'm a dirty hippie who doesn't like militaristic things.
And even I say Starfleet is a military organization. It isn't the same as a modern military (and why would it be? it's over 200-300 years in the future) in that it's scientific and research parts, as well as the diplomatic one seems just as important as the armed forces one, but it's still a military/navy/air force/whatever.
So I don't expect, or want, the same grade of militarism from Starfleet that is displayed by a modern military, but early TNG was very awkward about pretending that they aren't military at all (you can thank Roddenberry's knee-jerk reaction to the movies for that, I suppose)
Let's put it this way, Starfleet is to a modern military like a modern military is to a Medieval levy consisting of peasants with pointy sticks in their hands.
And even I say Starfleet is a military organization. It isn't the same as a modern military (and why would it be? it's over 200-300 years in the future) in that it's scientific and research parts, as well as the diplomatic one seems just as important as the armed forces one, but it's still a military/navy/air force/whatever.
So I don't expect, or want, the same grade of militarism from Starfleet that is displayed by a modern military, but early TNG was very awkward about pretending that they aren't military at all (you can thank Roddenberry's knee-jerk reaction to the movies for that, I suppose)
Let's put it this way, Starfleet is to a modern military like a modern military is to a Medieval levy consisting of peasants with pointy sticks in their hands.
they're like Jacques Cousteau but with guns and matching outfits, so.. shit. The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou is basically star trek in the water.
BTW, has anyone looked up what "paramilitary" means?
Wikipedia:
A paramilitary is an organization whose structure, tactics, training, subculture, and (often) function are similar to those of a professional military, but is not part of a country's official or legitimate armed forces. Paramilitary units carry out duties that a country's military or police forces are unable or unwilling to handle. Other organizations may be considered paramilitaries by structure alone, despite being unarmed or lacking a combat role.
Merriam-Webster:
: of, relating to, being, or characteristic of a force formed on a military pattern especially as a potential auxiliary military force
Dictionary.com:
noting or pertaining to an organization operating as, in place of, or as a supplement to a regular military force:
And finally Britanica.com:
: of or relating to a group that is not an official army but that operates and is organized like an army
paramilitary militias
Government forces have been attacked by heavily armed paramilitary groups in several villages.
paramilitary training
a paramilitary police force
So it's not like this other word is less combat oriented than the first word.
I'm starting to feel like Ahnold in The Last Action Hero: "See! I haven't made THIS argument before! This is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT THREAD! RUBBER BABY BUGGY BUMPERS!"
Wikipedia:
A paramilitary is an organization whose structure, tactics, training, subculture, and (often) function are similar to those of a professional military, but is not part of a country's official or legitimate armed forces. Paramilitary units carry out duties that a country's military or police forces are unable or unwilling to handle. Other organizations may be considered paramilitaries by structure alone, despite being unarmed or lacking a combat role.
Merriam-Webster:
: of, relating to, being, or characteristic of a force formed on a military pattern especially as a potential auxiliary military force
Dictionary.com:
noting or pertaining to an organization operating as, in place of, or as a supplement to a regular military force:
And finally Britanica.com:
: of or relating to a group that is not an official army but that operates and is organized like an army
paramilitary militias
Government forces have been attacked by heavily armed paramilitary groups in several villages.
paramilitary training
a paramilitary police force
So it's not like this other word is less combat oriented than the first word.
I'm starting to feel like Ahnold in The Last Action Hero: "See! I haven't made THIS argument before! This is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT THREAD! RUBBER BABY BUGGY BUMPERS!"
Wisdom,
Because real world politics at the time dictated it.
I don’t think so. Profit motive was what motivated it. Gene was trying to sell it to the pacifist crowd that he made money off of in the 1970’s touring various college campuses.
Weren't the 80s pretty big on heroes with connection to the military? Seems like they loved them with all those action movies and shows starring people with some connection to the military.
So I'm not sure they had that "we're totally not the military" mindset in the first couple seasons of TNG to comply with the real life politics at the time.
So I'm not sure they had that "we're totally not the military" mindset in the first couple seasons of TNG to comply with the real life politics at the time.
I agree. If anything, I think TNG did everything the other way around compared to the norm. It was a reaction to the times instead of a reflection. In the context of 1987, TNG not being pro-military and also being anti-capitalist was deliberately going against the grain of Reaganism. It was on the wane by 1987, but too much of a wane yet, since Bush Sr. still easily won in 1988.
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I mean, A Private Little War felt pretty anti-military.
I never got that impression, to be honest. Kirk arms peaceful hill people with weapons to balance the Klingon interference. Likely leading to decades of bloody war.
I think it was anti-war (not anti-military) but it was also pro-realism. Kirk picked the least worst outcome.
(One often hears "Vietnam" touted as an issue that TOS confronted on prime time television as a significant part of Star Trek's legacy. One never hears what Star Trek's course of action was.)
But Starfleet is the "professional/legitimate" Service Force of the Federation Government. It's not an auxiliary or special-mission service, it's the primary armed service.
The only question here is whether it's armed status makes it considered to be military or not, in which case I'd reference you to the official canon answer: Both.
You're probably right. I could have put that better.
I'd say honestly, it can't be both. We have a few lines of dialogue that has a character either saying it isn't the military or shitting on the military, but the overwhelming evidence suggests that Starfleet is clearly the Federation's military arm.
And it isn't like we don't see real world entities that try to counter what they really are by using conflicting terminology. Like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) or the German Democratic Republic (East Germany). Or numerous American militias that try to cover what they really are with patriotic sounding names.
Adding to that, Kirk's decision--with its real world commentary--was a military decision; he did not stand there, telling Tyree and his people to offer flowers and olive branches to the Vilagers & the Klingons. Kirk also struggled with his plan, but that's about an assumed / predicted outcome, not a rejection of the military in general.
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