@TREK_GOD_1 who exactly are those people who are such Snyder haters on this board, that they hate the whole thing and want to start over completely from scratch?? I mean, finding some loud voices on the internet who would say such things is easy. To quote Perry White form the Snyder movies “And in other news, water is wet!”
And Is there anyone here on TrekBBS, or even on the internet, that REALLY thinks Henry Cavill was miscast as Superman??? Cavill himself isn’t the problem….but HOW they have developed him, narratively.
But what really gets people is the misdevelopment of Clark/Superman.
They had a couple of good scenes with Martha helping Clark like a special needs child, and Jonathan challenging Clark about what kind of man he would be. But then they dropped those potentially great narratives. Martha SHOULD have become a therapist, who inspires Clark as HIS hero (and we can see why he cares about the "weak"), and JOnathan's "sacrifice" seemed kinda wasteful. And then Clark learns "superheroing" by doing the TV Incredible Hulk thing of helping someone with his powers, and then moving on. Blech.
Then we have Batman vs. Superman , which happens like 3 or 4 times. The first, was of course the movie. OK cool. But then the next movie, you have Batman (and the League) vs. newly resurrected Superman. (see below for comments on that). Then we have the Knightmare, which AGAIN is Superman vs. Batman. And not sure if that was a variation or a “preview” of the planned JL2 with the anti-life equation. But it is a rinse and repeat move.
And narratively, Superman’s death in the 2nd movie was meaningless, as we all knew he would be back for more (as opposed to Spock, who had several years leading up to him dying in his second movie). And not just the real life audience, but also, how long had Superman been active as a Superhero in the DCFU at that point?
The WB management, both past and present, remind me of Sony and how they have handled Spiderman. In their case, they might have let Raimi do his own vision for Spidey at first, which connected to fans past and created many new ones. But by the 3rd one, Sony execs had shown their greed, and driven off the director, and subsequently, the star. So they destroyed momentum that had been created.
It was obvious to a number of us that the new Spiderman was done mostly to keep the profit-making license, and NOT with a love for the character or fandom. So that’s why it bombed by the 2nd ASM.
They were smart enough to let Marvel run with it… and by THEIR 3rd movie, was then able to bring in even old fans of ASM, and in fact made fans like me even appreciate Andrew Garfield and his time as ASM, such that I would be happy to see him again.
A “clean slate” worked to do a 3rd version of Spiderman because ASM was only 2 films, so not much to worry about .
The thing is Zaslav has some good points… mainly about how Superman OUUGHT to be the premier live action hero (even beyond Marvel) , as well as how the various forms (TV & movies) really need to be brought together.
But Zaslav has also proven that he is all about the money, and just doesn’t understand the fan culture, nor how to organically develop it.
With Gunn involved… I had mentioned him being “comic book-y”. So for me, at the right time, it can work, such as the Hulk punching Thor/Hulk slapping around Loki scenes, were laugh out loud moments that really work without making the movie feel too goofy. Productions like Guardians, THE Suicide Squad and Peacemaker work within themselves…but going into the bigger universe??
(By the way, I would describe Snyder as being “graphic novel-ish” –being too serious and/or negative in areas where it’s not necessary… so the coloring in Man of Steel and his “development” into the role. It was a perfect style for 300, but the 7 minute montage in Up made Carl far more likeable/understandable, or a few establishing scenes and Montage in Captain AMerica The First Avenger for us to embrace Steve Rogers as not just a superhero but a leader of people)
My other concern with Gunn is that he is knee deep into finishing Guardians, while now tasked with he future of the DCFU (a heavy load that needs exclusive concentration). He’s a guy who seems to go against the grain of a “mainstream” culture (i.e. the overall tone of the DCFU / MCU), and now he is tasked to create his own?
I am skeptical, but open to be proven wrong on it.
For some of the other DCFU stuff going on:
regarding The Rock & black Adam – I think he was doing his wrestling hype of it. It didn’t “save” or resurrect the DCFU, but also didn’t kill it. A solid entry, but I don’t see it revolutionizing anything. I would love to see Black Adam vs. Superman – but he also needs to go against the Shazam family.
Is the treatment being reported of WW3 REAL???? Seems kinda off for them. Not sure if they have NDA’s that prevent them from speaking on the truth. (I assume those are big with WB… because we haven’t had much talk about Geoff Johns’ tenure…. It seems like he was the perfect Kevin Feige – type , but no one seemed to listen to him at the WB; feels like a whole story there...more than what Ray Fisher would want us to believe)
I am too lazy to find the link right now…but a rumor that Jason Mamoa will switch to Lobo rather than Aquaman. (any truth to this????) While I can totally see him in that new role…any reason why he can’t do both? Lobo has enough makeup that they can make him different. The first was so successful (i.e. how Superman SHOULD have done financially), that unless the sequel is soooooo bad and money-losing, and Mamoa has Ezra issues, it would be foolish to stop.
And the Flash?????? While I think Ezra Miller’s character was a perfect contrast/fit for the other characters of the League…. Way back then, they could have EASILY integrated Gustin’s version. Centering him in Central City is just fine, and pull him out when needed. (And have excuses why he isn’t calling on the League and/or have the JL set some time after the series is initially set). Gustin’s character started as socially inept as Ezra’s character, and could have built on it. The positive hype the series had gotten from fans could have easily transferred over to the movies. We will see what happens with his movie… but it has been an unforeseen mess, between Ezra & Covid.
And I don’t have time to talk about the TV shows that are all over the place, and divide people rather than move a core fanbase from show to show (in addition to show-specific fans)
(Speaking just for myself, of course.)
