That microbus might be able to make it to 80 on the highway eventually, but likely not in the space available in the parking lot. But even a crash at 60 would be more than enough to be fatal.
Burning question to some of our favorite movies
- Thread starter Turd Ferguson
- Start date
That microbus might be able to make it to 80 on the highway eventually, but likely not in the space available in the parking lot. But even a crash at 60 would be more than enough to be fatal.
"The price of immortality" meant to anyone worthy enough to drink from the grail had the responsibility to respect its value, which also seemed to mean not taking / exposing it to the world, where it would be misused just as Donovan intended. However, being a "holy" object, the true price of trying to use it for corrupt purposes in the world would trigger the destruction of the lair--which is what Ilsa triggered with her greed / power-motivated theft of the grail.
Earning immortality was not said to require consistent drinks from the grail; Indiana drank from it one time, and the knight told him he was immortal--no addendums to that fact.
Well, we can chalk that up to not wanting to cause potential damage or hurt the stunt driver.
What I want to know is, how the 3 Brother Knights were able to build that entire Grail Temple and those traps.
Sometimes it's just in nature (at least mine) to overthink the movies I've watched dozens upon dozens of times. Take, for example, Back to the Future. An all-time classic and in my top three movies. But,not immune to my overthinking.
At the end of Part III, we see Marty and Jennifer happy. Doc and Clara zip off to the past in the locomotive time machine with Jules and Verne to have adventures. Everybody's happy. Or are they?
Surely after the Libyan attack at Twin (Lone) Pine(s) Mall, some sort of investigation had to occur as to why there were spent casings all over the parking lot and the Libyans decided to stage an attack on the One Hour Photo booth. Assuming the Libyans survived, wouldn't the FBI eventually detain them and they spill the beans about the wacky scientist they attempted to kill along with a teenager who stole their plutonium? And if they didn't survive, wouldn't the Feds wonder why a VW bus decided to kamikaze into a photo booth armed with an RPG?
After Doc and Clara leave 1985 in the train, the FBI would still be investigating the plutonium theft. Wouldn't they at least question Marty?
Wouldn't it alter the timeline to leave the trashed DeLorean with its 2015 Mr. Fusion reactor for Joe Civilian to stumble upon and reverse engineer? What if Mr. Fusion started leaking radiation on the side of the tracks? Wouldn't Marty be questioned as to why he was in a vehicle registered to Doc Brown that he took joyriding on the train tracks and ended up totaling playing chicken with a locomotive? Maybe get charged with littering or fleeing the scene of an accident?
I don't mean for this to be a serious thread. I welcome thoughts on some overthinking of Back to the Future or any other sci fi/fanstasy movies
serious answers to interesting non-serious questions.
1: Yes, they're probably happy
2: if they did question Marty, he has very little to tell the investigators. The terrorists probably knew nothing about him, and he new virtually nothing about them. Until the events of the movies, seemed to mostly help Doc around his house and lab. It seemed like Doc protected him. Anyway, if the Libyans survived they made have fled leaving only many questions about the wreckage.
3: the wreck was pretty well demolished. And maybe it's a transparent-aluminum paradox if someone did manage to get the pieces of Mr Fusion or the levitation system back together. But there's no reason anyone who found the wreckage would have been able to realize there was anything special of the debris. It was a confusing mix of stainless still, old iron rr wheels, Renault, engine, car seats, etc.
4: No reason to think a fusion reactor would "leak" radiation. This is a made up device but fusion doesn't generate harmful radiation the way fission does and there isn't the issues of spent fuel rods.
5: Did anyone actually see Marty in the DeLorean before the train hit it? It doesn't seem likely. It seems far more likely there'd be a UFO report dismissed about a flying locomotive.
i doubt the Libyans would be much of a concern. They are more comic relief than anything else. Not exactly hardcore. I'm sure they fled like the cowards they are.
If they were actually caught by the government, nobody would believe their ramblings about Doc; if they somehow managed to return home, their own people would probably execute them for failure.
And Doc, while not exactly the most social of guys, is obviously not a terrorist either. If the government questions him, he'd tell the absolute truth: the Libyans forced him to build a bomb, and he gave them a casing full of machine parts.
If they were actually caught by the government, nobody would believe their ramblings about Doc; if they somehow managed to return home, their own people would probably execute them for failure.
And Doc, while not exactly the most social of guys, is obviously not a terrorist either. If the government questions him, he'd tell the absolute truth: the Libyans forced him to build a bomb, and he gave them a casing full of machine parts.
Last edited:
Well, he did that the first morning back (the wrecked car) and it barely registered, once they went out to look. Honestly, the McFly family still seems pretty clueless in the new timeline. Biff is provably still a total @#$% to everyone except George & family, and they treat him like a buffoon.
Anyway, Jennifer knows what's going on with Marty (more or less) and could cover for him.
Some movies I've been giving some thought to today are The Matrix movies. I know it's mentioned the Architect tried a few early iterations where humans lived in paradise, but they rejected that Matrix, due to their violent, hostile nature. But is it ever explained WHY the machines chose 1999ish Earth? The technology of that time is pretty close to the technology used by Zion in the real world. Most of the residents of Zion also appear to be hackers or at least computer users.
SOOO.... why didn't the Machines create a Matrix representing a more primitive time period? Surely 1800s era America would be violent enough for the humans plugged into the Matrix. In fact, any time period pre-internet should have sufficed to keep the humans in check, as they wouldn't have internet chatting capabilities for Zion to recruit new members. Also, any unplugged humans would have no way to figure out (or at least a STEEP learning curve) trying to figure out the real world's computers and hover craft technology, making the Machines' fight a helluva lot easier.
SOOO.... why didn't the Machines create a Matrix representing a more primitive time period? Surely 1800s era America would be violent enough for the humans plugged into the Matrix. In fact, any time period pre-internet should have sufficed to keep the humans in check, as they wouldn't have internet chatting capabilities for Zion to recruit new members. Also, any unplugged humans would have no way to figure out (or at least a STEEP learning curve) trying to figure out the real world's computers and hover craft technology, making the Machines' fight a helluva lot easier.
I think it's because the machines saw how "The One" kept re-emerging and re-creating Zion and no matter what they did, the Architect couldn't keep "The One" from re-emerging from the human populace. So they chose to maintain the pattern, because they couldn't fix the glitch in the Matrix that kept 100% of Humans from accepting it.
None of that was said about it in the movie
No he didn't. All the Knight told Indy about the use of the Grail was... "But the grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. That is the boundary, AND the price of immortality"
He's directly instructing Indy that immortality can only be achieved while there in the chamber, as he himself had done. The intent of those 2 sentences together suggests that the price of immortality is that you can't go past the boundary with immortality, which means the effect wears off, either because YOU leave the holy site, OR because you must drink ongoingly from it to maintain immortality, & IT can't leave, so you must stay to keep being immortal.
Since the knight himself had aged a LOT, we can presume he hasn't obtained an aging stasis from it, which leads us more to the second of those 2 conditions being the circumstance. He even admits his strength has left him. Why would that happen if he has unalterable immortality & healing? The rules of the cup are evident in what he tells you AND what we see from him. It wears off, & you began aging again, until you drink more. That's why he's elderly.
The knight was not vague: when Jones drank from the correct grail, he said Jones made the wise choice--he did not say or imply, "If You leave the lair, immortality is lost."[/i] Not at all. The warning was specific--the price was to leave the Grail in the lair. That's about the grail alone. The point of the entire scene was that Henry found justification / truth in his life long faith / search (and Indiana found belief, where had flip-flopped in previous movies), with his being the recipient of the Grail's power.
If leaving the lair meant the Grail's effect on one who drank from it ceased to impact said drinker, then one can assume the restorative powers of the Grail--pointing to Henry's recovery from the bullet wound should have been reversed (or neutralized) --as if he never sipped from it / had its water poured on the wound at all. It was not, because its effect was not bound to remaining in the lair. The same applies to immortality granted to Indiana and his father.
Last edited:
OK. I think I see what you're saying. You're taking the knight's statement in its most basic context. The cup can't leave, and the mere inability of it to be taken away is somehow the price of the immortality it gave you, but how is that a price? It's not like you're paying for immortality with a cup that was never yours. You're saying that the price for immortality is that you can't abscond with the grail, even though you have already gotten immortality from it.
I'm saying the other interpretation of that statement is that the "price" is that a person requires the cup to be immortal, which can't leave. So, to have immortality, the immortal one must remain there... as the knight himself did... That plus the fact that the knight has aged greatly, lost virility etc... eludes to the fact that the "price" of immortality is remaining there & ongoing use of the cup to maintain it, as the knight clearly must've done himself from time to time, given that he's grown old but is still alive. The evidence is in the combination of both what he said AND what is seen.
However, that is just the price of everlasting life, which has nothing to do with the healing power of the grail, that Henry benefitted from (& Indy, who had face scratches before using it. Neat subtle bit, that) There's no reason why the healing of a wound should revert upon leaving. It's only the ability to have everlasting life that is lost after leaving, hence why Henry is dead in the next film, & Indy has grown old. They needed to stay there to be immortal, & likely drink more from it
Hmmm... Here's a thought. We don't see anything or any way for that knight to eat. His sole form of sustenance was drinking from that grail. He healed his starvation with it.
How'd we know the knight wasn't really old when he started his vigil?
What always bugged me about that was why you'd agree to spend centuries in a cave guarding the grail and why you'd leave clues to its location for people to find if no one could ever take the grail away or gain from its magic, apart from very briefly?
I get that it's a test of faith on behalf of the knight, but what does Indy gain? He gets to save his dad's life but his dad's life is only in danger because they went looking for the grail!
If you don't want people to find the grail why not bury it in the mountain where no one will ever find it? No clues, no avoidable traps, safe for all time. I mean that's what happens anyway at the end when it falls into the chasm!
The Knight is basically comic book guy from The Simpsons. "I've wasted my life!"
What always bugged me about that was why you'd agree to spend centuries in a cave guarding the grail and why you'd leave clues to its location for people to find if no one could ever take the grail away or gain from its magic, apart from very briefly?
I get that it's a test of faith on behalf of the knight, but what does Indy gain? He gets to save his dad's life but his dad's life is only in danger because they went looking for the grail!
If you don't want people to find the grail why not bury it in the mountain where no one will ever find it? No clues, no avoidable traps, safe for all time. I mean that's what happens anyway at the end when it falls into the chasm!
The Knight is basically comic book guy from The Simpsons. "I've wasted my life!"
Just off the top of my head...
In Live and Let Die Bond uses (or tries to use) his magnetic watch four times.
In Moonraker he uses his wrist darts at least twice.
In Die Another Day he uses his vibrating ring (ooh er missus) to shatter glass on two separate occasions.
Re Goldeneye and the car, initially I was irked he didn't use it but in hindsight in made a pleasant change. Sometimes he's issued very specific gadgets which just happen to come in handy later. Even Casino Royale is guilty of this with the defibrillator he just happens to have in his Aston.
Still with Goldeneye, and to bring this back to the original question, I've always wondered whether 006 was already working with Ourumov or whether he began working with him after he was captured? The obviously fake death scene suggests the former, but if so why didn't 006 pop a cap in James' before they got anywhere near blowing up the gas tanks and before 006 himself kills loads of Russians? Bond has no idea he's a traitor and 006 has multiple opportunities to shoot Bond in the back.
Because he said he was one of 3 brothers, who were knights of the 1st Crusade, who'd swore an oath the find the grail & guard it, that his strength had left him, & that he was chosen because he was the bravest & most worthy, until another came to challenge him to single combat. You don't usually send a feeble old guy to guard something divinely precious, with the eventuality that someone would come there to have combat him. That... & you probably don't give a weapon to a guy for guarding the Holy Grail, if he can't wield it
Because someone WAS supposed to come find it. Someone worthy of it. Someone who's purpose wasn't to prosper from it, but to also take part in guarding it. Someone faithful, & in service of a holy purpose. Indy's just there rather accidentally, & Henry got duped by nefarious types
Last edited:
The price is that for so meaningful an object and all that it bestows upon its user, it is also the most dangerous, tempting power of all for anyone--essentially God (and knights in His service) knowing what kind of wrong individuals or groups would use it for the worst reasons beyond personal benefit (e.g. give the entire membership of a corrupt army with immortality). The knight seemed to believe any truly good/worthy person would appreciate / understand that and leave the Grail in the lair, but, in the event circumstances spiraled out of control--which is what happened--the lair would be destroyed.
One can safely assume that the Grail's restorative power being immortality provides healing of every kind, so whatever one gained from drinking from the Grail can be classified as part of the gift--the power. If there was a stated caveat linking the restorative power to remaining in the lair--and there was not such a caveat even implied--then anyone who drank from the Grail would lose whatever was gained from the cup--essentially leaving the person as they were before the drink.
Additionally, the major point of that entire sequence was not about Donovan and Ilsa (since anyone seeing the film knew they were going to fail just as hard as Belloq did in Raiders) or the Nazi's quest for immortality. It was about faith realized; Henry always had his faith, but his lifelong search for the Grail (and all its origin and use meant for humankind) was substantiated in the most undeniable manner. through his being able to see, touch and finally benefit from the Grail even after he's left the lair.
The knight believed Indiana was there to replace him--the reason he misidentified him as another knight. Of course, the script has a few dodgy parts in that the knight would--or should have expected that someone other than one with faith and honor might discover its location. Then again, if the wrong person obtained it, the suggested God-directed destruction of the lair would prevent its theft, as seen with Ilsa's attempt.
I get that it's a test of faith on behalf of the knight, but what does Indy gain? He gets to save his dad's life but his dad's life is only in danger because they went looking for the grail![/quote]
Indiana gained (or regained) faith. Earlier in the film, Henry admonished him for his blasphemous statement--the result of his agnostic or atheistic behavior. He needed his father to face death before he found faith in taking that step, trusting that he selected the correct cup, then giving the Grail-held water to his father.
But that's not really what the knight said. He only said that there was a price for the obtaining of immortality from it, linking that price to the cup, which must remain there. You have to infer the rest from the state of the knight himself. He is aged, & feeble. Clearly those powers have other conditions that have allowed that, which he didn't get into, or didn't have time to.
It's not really for us, with our limited knowledge of it, to classify the specifics of how its power or powers are manifest. He maybe thought the immediate healing properties were somewhat self-explanatory, but what he DID figure needed further edification was the caveat of immortality on its own, & how it's clearly not a one & done scenario, as can be deduced from his own condition, which openly displays that more is needed, and that need is linked to having the cup, & it never leaving.
Edit: BTW, I think I've hijacked this thread on this topic long enough. So, I'll give it a rest now. It really just boils down to interpretive preferrences anyhow
Last edited: