Which 23rd Century is canon?

[Lord Garth]

When I was watching First Contact, the version of Zephram Cochrane from "Metamorphosis" was the last thing on my mind.

As far as either version: Either way, I think Zephram Cochrane had a team working for him and he took all or most of the credit, being the head of development. Creating the first warp-capable ship isn't a one-person job.

 

[Birb-of-Prey]

I don't think even Paramount knows the answer to this question.

 

[Takeru]

I don't think even Paramount knows the answer to this question.

Of curse they do, if it's on screen it's canon. It's not that complicated.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I started to watch VOY by mere accident in the beginning of 1998 and I must admit that I did have some inttial doubts about Tuvok, not because the actor was black but because we'd never seen a Vulcan with dark skin before.

We saw a Romulan with dark skin in TNG
Commander Sirol in The Pegasus

 

[Farscape One]

And there were also black Vulcans that appeared before VOYAGER in STAR TREK III, STAR TREK V, and a patron in a bar in "Preemptive Strike".

Granted, all of them were basically background actors/actresses, but Tuvok was not the first to appear in the franchise.

 

[fireproof78]

However, I really hope that I'll never have to see a remake of TNG, DS9 or VOY.

No one is forcing anyone to watch these shows. There is no "have to" no obligation laid on a person to participate in a franchise they don't find enjoyment in. But, remakes are a Hollywood stable.

That has never been Star Trek's MO, nor Hollywood's. Nostalgia sells and there is simply more value in recasting than creating something new. No one has to like it, but it is what it is.

Yup. Been going on a lot longer than Trek has been going.

 

[jackoverfull]

And there were also black Vulcans that appeared before VOYAGER in STAR TREK III, STAR TREK V, and a patron in a bar in "Preemptive Strike".

Granted, all of them were basically background actors/actresses, but Tuvok was not the first to appear in the franchise.

really? I never noticed them!

Not that Tuvok being black being an issue ever made sense to me. Humanoid aliens can have different phenotypes…WHAT A SURPRISE!

But if course we’re talking of a show where a blonde romulan is totally abnormal (but nobody cares about the suddenly appeared bumps on their foreheads), so I should have known better.

 

[Kor]

When I was watching First Contact, the version of Zephram Cochrane from "Metamorphosis" was the last thing on my mind.

As far as either version: Either way, I think Zephram Cochrane had a team working for him and he took all or most of the credit, being the head of development. Creating the first warp-capable ship isn't a one-person job.

True, that. Even Metamorphosis only described him as "the discoverer of the space warp." From that, I got the sense that he was a research scientist and that his ground-breaking theories or formulas or whatever were what ultimately made it all possible, even if it fell to teams of engineers to implement it in real life.

Kor

 

[at Quark's]

Of course, the existence of several 'races' (probably the wrong word) in other sentient species isn't surprising. What would be surprising there would be the same types of 'races' in other species. Would 'asian' (so to speak) Vulcans also exist?

 

[fireproof78]

Of course, the existence of several 'races' (probably the wrong word) in other sentient species isn't surprising. What would be surprising there would be the same types of 'races' in other species. Would 'asian' (so to speak) Vulcans also exist?

Potentially. I haven't studied the evolutionary processes around it but I believe the shape of the eyes was attributed to living near the coasts and adapting for glare from the ocean. Now, that's my really rudimentary understanding so if I'm wrong I'll be open to it, but the answer to your question is "Yes, given the right circumstances and environmental pressures."

 

[Kor]

Of course, the existence of several 'races' (probably the wrong word) in other sentient species isn't surprising. What would be surprising there would be the same types of 'races' in other species. Would 'asian' (so to speak) Vulcans also exist?

One was seen in The Search for Spock when they were doing the ceremony on Mt. Seleya. He was the one banging the gong: https://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd1589.jpg

For some reason the name of the actor does not seem to be known.

And then there was Romulan Caithlin Dar in STV: The Final Frontier, played by Cynthia Gouw.

Kor

 

[Nerys Myk]

T’Pau was also played by an Asian actress. (Canon violation!!!!) in a Voyager episode.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

T’Pau was also played by an Asian actress. (Canon violation!!!!) in a Voyager episode.

T'Pau has appeared on Enterprise, but not Voyager. Who are you thinking of?

The only female Vulcan I can remember appearing on VOY is (hologramatically) Tuvok's wife T'Pel, and she was black, not Asian.

As for Khan: I find it amusing that anyone could ever call him a Sikh. Based on what? His name? Khan is obviously not religious...

I mean, I'm sure there are a fair amount of people named Singh who aren't Sikh. McGivers suggests he is one just by looking at him (before she even learns his name), which is even more amusing.

And if CumberKhan bothers anyone that much, they can always go with the headcanon that it wasn't actually Khan, and that Cumby's character just happened to take the name after the real Khan passed away.

That being said, I actually would like to hear the story of how (in the Kelvin timeline) Section 31 managed to find the Botany Bay before the Enterprise did. What part of the timeline divergence made that happen?

But if course we’re talking of a show where a blonde romulan is totally abnormal

I guess they thought that we wouldn't believe Sela was Tasha's daughter unless they shared a hair color.

(but nobody cares about the suddenly appeared bumps on their foreheads), so I should have known better.

AFAIK, they only did that because they didn't trust TNG viewers to tell Romulans from Vulcans.

 

[Kor]

T'Pau has appeared on Enterprise, but not Voyager. Who are you thinking of?

The only female Vulcan I can remember appearing on VOY is (hologramatically) Tuvok's wife T'Pel, and she was black, not Asian.

The Voyager episode "Darkling" in which the EMH tried to improve his personality by incorporating aspects of various historical figures' personalities. He starts by interviewing holographic versions of them to see who has character traits that he wants to merge into his program. Holographic T'Pau was played by Betty Matsushita.

Kor

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Huh. I totally forgot about that.

 

[fireproof78]

That being said, I actually would like to hear the story of how (in the Kelvin timeline) Section 31 managed to find the Botany Bay before the Enterprise did. What part of the timeline divergence made that happen?

Being more proactive in identifying threats, monitoring remote areas in anticipation of the next attack.

 

[Orphalesion]

Spock is also iconic as a direct result of Leonard Nimoy's performance -- and is arguably coded as Ashkenazi Jewish, I might add. So reconceptualizing either of these characters would be offensive, both because of their iconic status, and because their original actors' ethnic identities are baked into the characters. Reconceptualizing Uhura as non-black would be actively offensive because it would undermine black representation. Reconceptualizing Spock as blonde would almost literally be "Aryianizing" a character played by a Jewish actor only twenty years removed from the Holocaust.

IDK whether I'd go so far as calling a blond Spock "aryianized" I mean there are Ashkenazi Jewish people who have naturally blond hair and Shatner's also Jewish and Kirk was played by blond, blue-eyed actor Chris Pine in the Kelvin Timeline. Also neither character was identified as Jewish in-universe, so it wouldn't be the same as re-casting Uhura with a white actress.
The bigger reason I'd say why Spock won't be re-cast with blond hair is because he's a hugely established character who had always been at the forefront of the franchise, which Robert April and Lt.Kyle are not.
Spock's a character people who is known by people who haven't even seen Star Trek and that includes his general appearance.
Making Spock randomly blond would be like Rings of Power having a black haired actress play Galadriel.

Robert April and Lt.Kyle on the other hand? I'm into Star Trek and I only vaguely know that April was the first captain of the TOS enterprise in the lore and I have no freaking idea who the hell "Lt.Kyle" is even supposed to be.

 

[Kor]

Being more proactive in identifying threats, monitoring remote areas in anticipation of the next attack.

Yes, Khan Harrison described it thusly: "For centuries we slept, hoping when we awoke things would be different. But as a result of the destruction of Vulcan, your Starfleet began to aggressively search distant quadrants of space. My ship was found adrift. I alone was revived."

Kor

 

[fireproof78]

Robert April and Lt.Kyle on the other hand? I'm into Star Trek and I only vaguely know that April was the first captain of the TOS enterprise in the lore and I have no freaking idea who the hell "Lt.Kyle" is even supposed to be.

Yup. This idea that all characters are equal is a nonstarter.

 

[Farscape One]

Being more proactive in identifying threats, monitoring remote areas in anticipation of the next attack.

You know, I thought that very reason years ago when I was trying to make sense of that mess of a movie. My inner brain feels somewhat vindicated.

Thank you for that.