Which 23rd Century is canon?

[somebuddyX]

Back in the 90s and 00s whenever they wanted to duplicate elements of TOS they tried to have everything look the same as the 60s. That's just a stylistic choice but I can see how it throws fans off as they think watching Star Trek needs to be like, I dunno, visiting a historical reenactment. You see see people in their period appropriate clothes and if someone's got their mobile phone out you're like "hey that's not right". I know I was guilty of this for a bit. It's why people do their heads in trying to rationalise production errors or limited budget rather than just going with it. In other productions of long lasting things like folklore, take Robin Hood, people accept watching Errol Flynn or Kevin Costner or Rusty as different interpretations of the same dude and that's how I try to look at Star Trek now.

 

[Tosk]

I am incorporating 'Fudge Factor' permanently into my book of phrases.

I love that alliteration! Genius!

(This is why you are such a good author.)

I was in a movie once called Fudge Factor. I don't wanna talk about it.

Spoiler: You don't wanna know, trust me. It's horrible...

It was an unlicensed Wonka sequel.

 

[Vger23]

Neither is canon. They cancel each other out.

 

[1001001]

I was in a movie once called Fudge Factor. I don't wanna talk about it.

Spoiler: You don't wanna know, trust me. It's horrible...

It was an unlicensed Wonka sequel.

That’s actually a lot better than I feared…

 

[Lord Garth]

There are Westerns with John Wayne. "Haven't you ever seen a Western?"
There are Westerns with Clint Eastwood. "Yeah I have, Doc. Clint Eastwood never wore anything like this."
And then there's the actual Old West in the second half of the 19th Century.

In much the same way...

There's the 23rd Century in TOS.
There's the 23rd Century in DSC and SNW.
And then there's the actual 23rd Century that we'll never see because we'll all be long dead.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Modern Trek, and it’s insistence on “reimagining” the 23rd century, has kind of thrown that time period into chaos. Discovery gave us a 23rd century that was nothing like TOS. Even Strange New Worlds is basically a visual reboot. However, Lower Decks and Prodigy have shown us that the 23rd century that was canon in legacy Trek, is still in place. It’s kind of confusing.

Both are canon,

 

[Greg Cox]

I am incorporating 'Fudge Factor' permanently into my book of phrases.

I love that alliteration! Genius!

(This is why you are such a good author.)

Can't really claim credit for "fudge factor," but thanks for the kind words.

 

[Farscape One]

You've not heard that term before?

I have not. Is this a recent term?

 

[Tosk]

I have not. Is this a recent term?

Around since the '60s.

 

[Farscape One]

Oh, my. Okay, it's an established phrase.

Well, now I know. And knowing is half the battle...

 

[NCC-73515]

Out of all the 23rd centuries, which is really true?
My dear doctor, they are all true.
Even the redesigned ones?
Especially the redesigned ones.

 

[at Quark's]

And then there's the actual 23rd Century that we'll never see because we'll all be long dead.

Let's just hope any human group is going to see it in relatively prosperous conditions and we don't wipe ourselves out before that by war, climate change, or resource depletion. (cue some funeral music, just for the mood)

As for what is the 'real' 23rd century in terms of Trek, I don't care too much. They're all a bunch of stories anyway, and re-imagining over the course of 55 years is a natural and organic part of the process, proving the franchise is alive.

I'd be much more worried about the state and future of the franchise if these things (e.g. how the 23rd century should be depicted) were cast in stone.

 

[publiusr]

Both, just as Saavik canonically looks like Kirstie Alley and Robin Curtis.

That you just have to swallow—the different ship looks I think you could have a multiverse answer for. Not only could you have a multiverse—but multiverse sets in an omiverse.

One in-universe explanation is that Prodigy and TOS share a universe share a universe where both Romulus and Vulcan survive. Spock Prime got to the Hobus system in time...died at peace seeing a real thaw and chance at unification..maybe first being debriefed by Section 31 as I suggested elsewhere. This is the novelverse where the Borg coming shrieking out of the stars. Trials and Tribblations…maybe Voyager’s trip to Earth’s past gives us the NX-01, etc.

Section 31 averts the Borg invasion of the novels by having Spock’s debrief reveal his secret of time travel…but this causes not just one side-universe…but a separate universe set.

Kelvin never meets the Narada, NX-01 is uprated to Pike’s ride that really looks post-TOS/pre-TMP lost years…and you have Discovery, PICARD, etc.

There is even greater fragmentation with Narada collapse perhaps in that past…spawning Archer’s ENTERPRISE…and Daniels is still trying to right things. Maybe like Annorax…he wants to stop the Burn, but that allows the Borg to invade…in each verse a great loss of life MUST happen. Romulus saved, but Vulcan lost.

So Prodigy can exist in the novelverse, perhaps?

Give OTOY time, and we will see the TOS, Kelvin, and Discoprise all facing one another.

You know it’s coming.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Looking forward to the Lower Decks/Strange New Worlds crossover and how it deals with the look of everything, since LD has already referenced the TOS look.

 

[BillJ]

Modern Trek, and it’s insistence on “reimagining” the 23rd century, has kind of thrown that time period into chaos. Discovery gave us a 23rd century that was nothing like TOS. Even Strange New Worlds is basically a visual reboot. However, Lower Decks and Prodigy have shown us that the 23rd century that was canon in legacy Trek, is still in place. It’s kind of confusing.

Both. Canon is not continuity.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

There's the 23rd Century in TOS.

TOS has a continuity through TAS and the TOS movies--all set in the 23rd century.

And then there's the actual 23rd Century that we'll never see because we'll all be long dead.

My, aren't you a walking Hallmark card.

 

[The Wormhole]

In a way completely fictional universes, such as Star Wars have it easier here because they don't have to exist in relation to the real-life present.

Also, Star Wars features technology which is considered in-universe to be outdated, which is why they can get away with duplicating a 1970s aesthetic in modern productions.

Looking forward to the Lower Decks/Strange New Worlds crossover and how it deals with the look of everything, since LD has already referenced the TOS look.

They'll make one brief meta joke about it and move on with the plot.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

There just wasn't a way they could make a whole show look exactly like a series from the 60s and expect it to be taken seriously,

TOS' overall appearance was obviously influential, but had no problem being the "past" of DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" or ENT's "In a Mirror, Darkly" 2-parter. I do not recall anyone claiming the TOS 1701 interiors/exterior "did not fit" as part of the worlds seen in either series (if it had been, one can argue it would have prevented the episodes from being among if not them most popular episode of either series because fans "just could not see how TOS fit", but...).

Further, one of the few things TNG handled well was giving that world the strong impression that there was a design lineage carried from TOS, the TOS movies and leading into TNG. It was never an issue at that time, but it appears to be in the horrifically un-Trek designs spearheaded by JJ's Apple Store in Space, and all that followed it.

much less writing it exactly like that.

Yes, back when ST had top-shelf writing, instead of what's passed as ST over the last 30 years.

 

[Lord Garth]

TOS has a continuity through TAS and the TOS movies--all set in the 23rd century.

Yes. I was speaking in shorthand. In my very first post in this thread, I mentioned the TOS Movies and how I consider it to be the definitive version of the 23rd Century.

When I say "TOS", sometimes I use it as a general umbrella to include TOS, TAS, and the TOS Movies. When I say "TNG", sometimes I use it as a general umbrella to include TNG, the TNG Movies, and PIC.

My, aren't you a walking Hallmark card.

Definitely.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Their both canon. The SNW writers just haven’t explained why the Enterprise underwent a refit after The Cage and reverted back to the TOS look later on.