Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[TREK_GOD_1]

On November 4, 1977(45 Years Ago Tonight) the telefilm that launched Bill Bixby's The Incredible Hulk was first aired by CBS.

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I remember watching the premiere and found it to be one of the great superhero adaptations. A near-perfect mix of mature drama and fantasy. Its still the gold standard for a Hulk film (and one of the greatest of all Marvel movies), with the Norton film taking 2nd place.

 

[cooleddie74]

Agreed. The Norton film is underrated.

 

[Relayer1]

I wonder if "auteurs" () will rejoice when people stop going to movie theaters. I actually love Tarantino movies, but the last one I saw in a movie theater was Pulp Fiction.

I saw and enjoyed some of the early Tarantino movies but having missed several and then seeing Inglorious Basterds, I think I'll stick to Iron Man 2 and Thor - The Dark World...

 

[fireproof78]

https://www.nme.com/news/film/quentin-tarantino-reveals-why-hell-never-do-a-marvel-movie-3342931
Tarantino would never do Marvel movies. Says auteurs will "rejoice" when superhero movies go the way of high budget movie musicals.

Good.

 

[Saul]

Agreed. The Norton film is underrated.

Hell yes. I loved that movie. I liked it so much more than Iron Man.

 

[Anwar]

So something occurred to me, so far when they reference the X-Men in the MCU they've been using cues from the 90s FOX show.

That's kind of sad, I thought the X-Men Evolution show on WB back in 2000 was a good show as well and had nice ideas worth adapting.

- Xavier being outed so they couldn't hide inside the Mansion, while in the 90s show he could still hide everyone there.

- X23

- Mystique and Magneto being enemies after a falling out

- No Jean/Logan/Scott Triangle, with Logan being a Mentor figure/Drill Sergeant type instead. And Scott and Jean not being together at the start, which allowed more character growth for them.

- Humans being more split on mutant hatred. Instead of nearly all humans hating mutants, we saw plenty of cops and army guys who treated the X-Men fairly. In the 90s show, the humans were mostly all assholes.

- They even showed us how a human character could go from a normal person to a mutant hating fanatic without it being forced with Kelly's character. A series of really bad encounters, kind of like Agent Liberty in the Supergirl show.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

So something occurred to me, so far when they reference the X-Men in the MCU they've been using cues from the 90s FOX show.

That's kind of sad, I thought the X-Men Evolution show on WB back in 2000 was a good show as well and had nice ideas worth adapting.

I think more than storytelling potential, the 90s X-Men cartoon was such a phenomenal success PLUS the theme song is so familiar that it's the easy pick. "Everybody" knows it. Evolution isn't as highly regarded for whatever reason, probably mostly due to the timing of when the original came out.

I watched X-Men Evolution and can't recall for the life of me the tune of the main theme. Mostly remember how well animated Rogue's hair was for some reason

 

[Christopher]

Evolution isn't as highly regarded for whatever reason, probably mostly due to the timing of when the original came out.

X-Men Evolution is possibly the most beautifully animated American TV series I've ever seen, but its first two seasons were pretty mediocre, especially the slow-paced first season. It didn't get really good until after mutants were outed to the world at the end of season 2. Every season was better than the previous one, but it did have a very weak start, which is probably why it didn't grab as large an audience.

 

[Anwar]

I think more than storytelling potential, the 90s X-Men cartoon was such a phenomenal success PLUS the theme song is so familiar that it's the easy pick. "Everybody" knows it. Evolution isn't as highly regarded for whatever reason, probably mostly due to the timing of when the original came out.

I watched X-Men Evolution and can't recall for the life of me the tune of the main theme. Mostly remember how well animated Rogue's hair was for some reason

The Evo theme was kind of a 2000s remix of the FOX animated theme. The music for the 90s show was rock stuff done by the same composer as Power Rangers, real hard rock electronic stuff.

The weird thing is that more stuff from Evolution made it into the comics than the 90s show. It may have added more to the overall mythos.

X-Men Evolution is possibly the most beautifully animated American TV series I've ever seen, but its first two seasons were pretty mediocre, especially the slow-paced first season. It didn't get really good until after mutants were outed to the world at the end of season 2. Every season was better than the previous one, but it did have a very weak start, which is probably why it didn't grab as large an audience.

S1 wasn't that good, plot wise, but it did let us focus more on the characters and relationships.

The characters in Evolution actually changed and developed, which is more than can be said for the 90s show.

It also did Apocalypse better than the 90s show did...and better than the movies did.

 

[Thestral]

I would be hard to do Apocalypse worse than the movies did.

But yes! I loved Evo and wish it was still referenced as much. Kitty and Kurt, the lack of a Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle, Logan and Ororo as mentors, their take on Magneto, the gorgeous animation...

 

[Dee1891]

Kitty and Kurt, the lack of a Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle,

I must admit that I wasn't that impressed by the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle Jean's feelings for Logan seemed to be more about lust than love to me. Unlike her feelings for Scott.

 

[Anwar]

I must admit that I wasn't that impressed by the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle Jean's feelings for Logan seemed to be more about lust than love to me. Unlike her feelings for Scott.

Ugh, the whole thing was a real mess. It was never a good storyline, it did none of the characters any favors and the only real reason it happened was because Chris Claremont was angry that the love interest he created for Scott (Madelyne Pryor) was disposed of to bring Jean back.

Of course, the whole Madelyne Pryor plot was a really creepy and bad plot in the first place. Having Scott decide to leave the X-Men to be with a woman who literally looked and acted like Jean was just messed up. It wasn't romantic, it was obsessive and creepy and it damaged his character for around 25 years.

 

[kirk55555]

Ugh, the whole thing was a real mess. It was never a good storyline, it did none of the characters any favors and the only real reason it happened was because Chris Claremont was angry that the love interest he created for Scott (Madelyne Pryor) was disposed of to bring Jean back.

Of course, the whole Madelyne Pryor plot was a really creepy and bad plot in the first place. Having Scott decide to leave the X-Men to be with a woman who literally looked and acted like Jean was just messed up. It wasn't romantic, it was obsessive and creepy and it damaged his character for around 25 years.

Don't forget that Maddie was already pregnant when he left, and I'm pretty sure he was aware of that. Scott and Jean would eventually raise Nathan (aka Cable) in the future for his first 12ish years (via their minds being sent to the future or something like that, if I remember correctly), so in story Jean basically stole Maddie's son, too.

 

[Anwar]

Don't forget that Maddie was already pregnant when he left, and I'm pretty sure he was aware of that. Scott and Jean would eventually raise Nathan (aka Cable) in the future for his first 12ish years (via their minds being sent to the future or something like that, if I remember correctly), so in story Jean basically stole Maddie's son, too.

Which is why I'll be happy if they NEVER adapt Maddie to any medium and just have Cable be the son of Scott and Jean. Maddie's whole character was a mess who did nothing but damage Cyclops for decades. Him getting with a double of Jean was NOT romantic, NOT a happy ending. It just was just creepy.

From 1986 to around 2010 no one knew what to do with Cyclops until they decided to give him a new role by having him banish Xavier, create Utopia and get Magneto to stop opposing the X-Men. Yes, they basically had to turn him into a Revolutionary Dictator type but it was at least SOMETHING new.

Frankly, when the MCU does Cyclops they should try to incorporate that from Day One: Instead of mindlessly supporting Xavier he should be clashing with him more on the X-Men's approach to things. Show he's got his own mind under his discipline and doesn't always agree with Xavier. Remember that he was an abused orphan for years who'd obviously be a bit messed up by all that

Have Jean be the mindlessly loyal one to fill that role.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

According to reports, Marvel Studios and Sony Pictures have reached a deal with Tom Holland to return as Spider-Man in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Undeniably a major part of the MCU Holland starred in a solo trilogy and two Avengers films to help cement the universe's expansive Phase 3 and Phase 4 storyline.

Rumors are now noting that Tom Holland has potentially signed a deal to return as the beloved Web-Crawler in at least six new projects. The reports are highlights first a new Spider-Man trilogy (Spider-Man 4, 5, 6) and appearances in the upcoming Disney+ show Daredevil: Born Again. Charlie Cox’s Matt Murdock and Tom Holland's Peter Parker have already interacted before in 2021's Spider-Man No Way Home. Other films Holland is tied to at the moment include Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars, both of which are set for Phase 6 of the MCU coming 2024-2026.

Story

 

[Christopher]

The reports are highlights first a new Spider-Man trilogy (Spider-Man 4, 5, 6) and appearances in the upcoming Disney+ show Daredevil: Born Again. Charlie Cox’s Matt Murdock and Tom Holland's Peter Parker have already interacted before in 2021's Spider-Man No Way Home.

It would be cool to see DD and Spidey team up against Kingpin.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I saw another rumor (prior to any reporting on this deal) that he might also appear in Across the Spider-Verse. I'm guessing that wouldn't be part of that six project deal.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It would be cool to see DD and Spidey team up against Kingpin.

The movies have been epic for me, but being so epic and galactic-level at times, they've really taken Spidey out of the New York Groove I remember from the comics. Then with DD in LA for whatever reason (it was a good appearance, but.....)

The D+ TV shows have been more rooted in the comics lore for the characters, for the most part.

 

[Christopher]

Then with DD in LA for whatever reason (it was a good appearance, but.....)

I think there was a period in the comics where he was operating out of San Francisco for a while.

But yeah, a Spidey/DD story more grounded in NYC would be good. (Spidey/DD/D+? That's a lotta "dee"s.)

 

[Reverend]

Which is why I'll be happy if they NEVER adapt Maddie to any medium and just have Cable be the son of Scott and Jean. Maddie's whole character was a mess who did nothing but damage Cyclops for decades. Him getting with a double of Jean was NOT romantic, NOT a happy ending. It just was just creepy.

From 1986 to around 2010 no one knew what to do with Cyclops until they decided to give him a new role by having him banish Xavier, create Utopia and get Magneto to stop opposing the X-Men. Yes, they basically had to turn him into a Revolutionary Dictator type but it was at least SOMETHING new.

Frankly, when the MCU does Cyclops they should try to incorporate that from Day One: Instead of mindlessly supporting Xavier he should be clashing with him more on the X-Men's approach to things. Show he's got his own mind under his discipline and doesn't always agree with Xavier. Remember that he was an abused orphan for years who'd obviously be a bit messed up by all that

Have Jean be the mindlessly loyal one to fill that role.

I don't know, I think it's fairly well engrained that Scott's defining character trait is "the good son" and "the boyscout", so starting him off as the antithesis of that might come off as contrarian, edgy for the sake of edgy, and just generally overcompensating.
I do agree however that this is part of what's historically made him such a bland character, so instead what I would propose is to start him out as the unquestioningly faithful disciple, but his would be arc to incrementally become disillusioned, or even radicalised to something closer to Eric's viewpoint. As for Jean; I might be inclined to pull a 'Londo & G'Kar' and set her on the opposite trajectory. That way you get to keep the tragic romance angle and not have to re-tread the tired Logan love triangle.